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Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#121

Post by emodendroket »

TheHypnotist wrote: post #76
ux-app wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

People are in favor of offering donations and having the modder get the full donation, not being asked to pay for added content. This includes full-fledged mods to a single weapon skin. To make things worse, it seemed that the store became flooded with half-assed content as a means for modders to make a quick buck. Furthermore, some mods required other mods, if the mods that were required started to charge, it became…

They sold Counterstrike as a retail release when it was still a mod. The donation stuff is a sure way to make sure almost no one ever even considers paying.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#122

Post by mcphage »

kedean wrote: post #80
ux-app wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

The core of the issue came down to the effects on the modder community. 1. Modders are hobbyists, not professionals. Many modders came right out and said they would no longer make mods under this system, because the pressure to charge means it becomes a job. They no longer would have the option to just walk away from the mod. 2. Piracy. Modders have explicitly made their mods available for free. Once you have a syste…

> In the end, most modders don't WANT to be paid for their mods, because it's not a profession. I saw plenty of support for a donation system, however.

So in the end, most modders don't WANT to be paid for their mods, except they do WANT to be paid and call it a donation?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#123

Post by ux-app »

kedean wrote: post #80
ux-app wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

The core of the issue came down to the effects on the modder community. 1. Modders are hobbyists, not professionals. Many modders came right out and said they would no longer make mods under this system, because the pressure to charge means it becomes a job. They no longer would have the option to just walk away from the mod. 2. Piracy. Modders have explicitly made their mods available for free. Once you have a syste…

In the end, most modders don't WANT to be paid for their mods, because it's not a profession.

That's an interesting perspective. Sounds like there are some valid criticisms of the system Valve has put in place.

To me it seems that gamers have cut off their nose to spite their own face in this regard. It seems to me that a paid modding ecosystem would be a big win in favor of gamers.

If lone hobbyists can improve a game so much, can you imagine if a studio of 5-10 could make a viable living from modding?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#124

Post by gibsonje »

ux-app wrote: post #65
michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

There's a lot of other context to the issue. -Mods that depend on other mods -Mod dependencies being removed from Nexus and changed to paid mods on Steam -Mods stealing work from other mods

If you read Gabe's responses he starts poking at the "Wow wow wow, why is this bad?" and learns a few things.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#125

Post by IgorPartola »

michaelt wrote: post #36
erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

In a way, this reminds me of the old joke:

> A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

> She: What kind of woman do you think I am?

> He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

The important bit here is that mod developers can get paid. How much is a matter of negotiation and revising.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#126

Post by TheHypnotist »

emodendroket wrote: post #121
TheHypnotist wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are in favor of offering donations and having the modder get the full donation, not being asked to pay for added content. This includes full-fledged mods to a single weapon skin. To make things worse, it seemed that the store became flooded with half-assed content as a means for modders to make a quick buck. Furthermore, some mods required other mods, if the mods that were required started to charge, it became…

They sold Counterstrike as a retail release when it was still a mod. The donation stuff is a sure way to make sure almost no one ever even considers paying.

Eh, yes. But at this point it had a gigantic following and was no longer considered to be in "beta". That said, if you had HL1, you could still download it for free, whereas if you did not and you just wanted CS, you could buy CS. There is a distinct difference.

As far as donations, there is no way you can assume that. Sure, a vast majority won't pay, but I'm sure there are those out there who are generous enough to throw a dollar or two out there to support the modder. Shit, it works for server admins.

Edit: Donations also work for people who contribute nothing and just stream themselves playing games. Some do very well, so I would venture a guess and say a modder putting out quality content could gather a few bucks.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#127

Post by darkmighty »

ux-app wrote: post #65
michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

Yes, they are. For example, extend your percentage to 1% instead of 25%. Then it becomes obvious you would be just putting a burden on consumers with actual moders profiting only marginally, and the activity as a whole will tend to decline, since it'1) less attractive as an economical activity, 2) less attractive a hobby, since that might be seen as a low paying job instead, and 3) less attractive for consumers given poor/scant products. The 25% is a milder version of this effect, but I don't find it hard to see why people were upset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

It also appears to have created quite a feud among moders which were or weren't going to charge for their work, since some mods are quite intertwined.

So it was a combination of effects. I do think the basic idea is worth of discussion, but it's certainly debatable if anything other than pay-what-you-want actually fosters the moding community.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#128

Post by mcphage »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #102
mcphage wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally found Bethesda getting any split quite distasteful. They produced the game and made their money on game sales. They produced the game engine, and are letting people develop on it for free. And them getting a cut from people piggybacking on their work and making money from it was distasteful to you?

'Piggyback' is a loaded word. Its something we all do when we use a compiler or desktop machine. Yet those folks don't stick their hands into our revenue stream.

> Yet those folks don't stick their hands into our revenue stream.

Game engines do. And they used to tack on $100,000 up front, to boot.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#129

Post by [deleted] »

bamie9l wrote: post #110
AndrewDucker wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the reason it's not a profession is that it's currently not possible to be paid for it. Make that possible and you'd then have some professional modders and some amateur ones.

In this case I believe that allocating a dollar value to work done for the love of it, significantly devalues that work in the eyes of its creator.

[deleted]

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#130

Post by mcphage »

lsaferite wrote: post #111
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Piggyback' is a loaded word. Its something we all do when we use a compiler or desktop machine. Yet those folks don't stick their hands into our revenue stream.

LOL, exactly. Hell, why don't musical instrument makers get a share of royalties for music made with their instruments?

> Hell, why don't musical instrument makers get a share of royalties for music made with their instruments?

Hell, why don't game engine developers get a share of royalties for games made with their engines?

...oh, right, they do.

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