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100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

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Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#121

Post by yummyfajitas »

kasey_junk wrote: post #117
yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I said "I can't think of a single advantage beyond PR". You don't seem to disagree.

A better work environment for more of the employees and a wider applicant pool with more qualified applicants making it through the pipeline doesn't seem to be PR by my definition, but maybe if it is by yours, then I suppose we don't disagree.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category.

I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#122

Post by maxerickson »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #121
kasey_junk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better work environment for more of the employees and a wider applicant pool with more qualified applicants making it through the pipeline doesn't seem to be PR by my definition, but maybe if it is by yours, then I suppose we don't disagree.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category. I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

This sort of stereotype probably has the predictive value of a D20 roll.

Phil's an 11, I spit in his lunch. Nancy is a 19, no problems expected.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#123

Post by Cakez0r »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #101
Cakez0r wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That confuses skin colour and culture though. The idea that skin colour makes you think differently is essence of racism. We may (or may not) need to break the privileged male echo chamber, but whether you're black or white is completely irrelevant. You want the diversity of social status, sure. To assume someone is of a different social status based on their skin colour is racism.

It also very common, because there is a positive correlation. Its an unfortunate fact that racial profiling is so popular, because it works. You have to address that head-on to make any progress.

I agree. I just don't like when people dress it up as promoting racial equality when they're doing the exact opposite.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#124

Post by jklein11 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #121
kasey_junk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better work environment for more of the employees and a wider applicant pool with more qualified applicants making it through the pipeline doesn't seem to be PR by my definition, but maybe if it is by yours, then I suppose we don't disagree.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category. I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

Are you saying that PR is not a valid business concern? Investor's and Consumer's perception of a company is as relevant as the products quality. Don't you think that people would be more hesitant to do business with a company labeled as "racist" in the public's opinion?

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#125

Post by kweinber »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #110
kweinber wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a nicer product that increases user engagement is manipulating the product to match what the user likes, not manipulating the user. Changing the order and quality of ranked news articles, bending the truth, using behavioral science to promote addictive dependence,advertising products you don't actually make are all manipulating the user. There is a big difference and yes, "manipulating the user" is sinister.

I specifically discussed putting human faces on the landing page to get more conversions and other design changes (e.g., button color, button copy). These don't change the product, only the landing page. That's not a lie or bending the truth. It is manipulating the user.

I would suggest you stay away from describing your business practices as "manipulation", though. Almost all connotations of that word in psychology, law, and business imply deceit.

It sounds like you are decorating the showroom to boost sales... I hope it works out well for you. I was thown by the initial desciption that sure didnt sound like faces and buttons: "I'm streaming realtime events and then running statistical models on the datastream in order to manipulate user behavior."

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#126

Post by kasey_junk »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #121
kasey_junk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better work environment for more of the employees and a wider applicant pool with more qualified applicants making it through the pipeline doesn't seem to be PR by my definition, but maybe if it is by yours, then I suppose we don't disagree.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category. I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

There are all manner of work place environmental factors that are very big deals to some people that are not obvious big deals to others.

For instance, sick child care disproportionally falls on women. So more women (of course not all women) view flexible hours, flexible sick time and flexible work from home options as major benefits. In many instances providing those things is a net improvement for everyone (including the business productivity) but it isn't as obvious in cases that don't experience the problem (like places that don't have as many parents generally or women specifically).

I suppose improving this environmental factor can be viewed as a PR move (which frequently has a pejorative tone, but I assume you are not applying that) but it also can have intrinsic benefits even if it never causes someone to think differently about the company.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#127

Post by yummyfajitas »

jklein11 wrote: post #124
yummyfajitas wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category. I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

Are you saying that PR is not a valid business concern? Investor's and Consumer's perception of a company is as relevant as the products quality. Don't you think that people would be more hesitant to do business with a company labeled as "racist" in the public's opinion?

You've lost the thread. I'm originally responding to this:

...bringing in ideas that are different to what we have now...In the case of tech, that's women, ethnic minorities, LGBQT+, non-tech, etc.

I wasn't responding to this:

...bringing in people who are superficially different but think the same way in order to manipulate the media...

Obviously PR matters and I'm happy to let my company exploit my race for that purpose (though I probably wouldn't have taken the job if I thought that was a significant factor). But that's completely tangential to the original point.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#128

Post by yummyfajitas »

kasey_junk wrote: post #126
yummyfajitas wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "PR" I mean "affects external perception of the company". Encouraging people to apply falls into that category. I don't see how the work environment is made better by my presence. I'm not going to be any nicer to minorities than my majority coworkers. And quite honestly, if someone of my race considers the environment better because they have a firangi to talk to, I'm unlikely to get along well with them.

There are all manner of work place environmental factors that are very big deals to some people that are not obvious big deals to others. For instance, sick child care disproportionally falls on women. So more women (of course not all women) view flexible hours, flexible sick time and flexible work from home options as major benefits. In many instances providing those things is a net improvement for everyone (includi…

In-kind benefits of this nature only improve the workplace for people who strongly desire them - people who don't want them are forced to pay for them anyway.

In fact, heterogeneous preferences w.r.t in-kind benefits are an argument for workplace homogeneity (and heterogeneity across workplaces). Women who want flexible hours can go work for a company providing flexible hours. Dudebro neckbeards can work for a company providing unlimited redbull, videogames and vodka even after normal working hours. If they work at the same company someone's pay is reduced to cover benefits they don't use.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#129

Post by kasey_junk »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #128
kasey_junk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all manner of work place environmental factors that are very big deals to some people that are not obvious big deals to others. For instance, sick child care disproportionally falls on women. So more women (of course not all women) view flexible hours, flexible sick time and flexible work from home options as major benefits. In many instances providing those things is a net improvement for everyone (includi…

In-kind benefits of this nature only improve the workplace for people who strongly desire them - people who don't want them are forced to pay for them anyway. In fact, heterogeneous preferences w.r.t in-kind benefits are an argument for workplace homogeneity (and heterogeneity across workplaces). Women who want flexible hours can go work for a company providing flexible hours. Dudebro neckbeards can work for a compan…

I suspect your statements around this are at the heart of our disagreement.

Your position on this implies that a) we all know our preference around in-kind benefits b) our use of in-kind benefits is static, predetermined, or correlated job moves c) the provision of in kind benefits is zero sum and/or d) in-kind benefit decisions can be optimally designed.

My position is the opposite on all of these cases. There are many in-kind benefits that I didn't realize were great until I received them because someone else wanted them, the utility of these benefits varies over time and is not correlated from employee to employee (and the homogenity required to correlate them would be hugely detrimental in other resource allocation ways), and that the optimal benefit strategy is often emergent rather than designed, and that the more inputs into the system we have the better the emergent behavior is.

Finally, being polite and showing empathy would also follow your rules about zero sum behavior and workplace homogeneity. I'm curious what that implies about your position on general civility and empathetic behavior in the workplace.

Re: 100 Days as a Black Man in Silicon Valley

#130

Post by garmain »

rickyc091 wrote: post #65
collyw wrote: post #4

Interestingly I see a lot of comments saying we need more women in tech, but none saying we need more black people in tech. I have worked with a number of women, and only ever seen one consultant come in who was black. Are we more racist than sexist? (I see plenty of Indians however, maybe a disproportionate amount compared to the general population?). I am based in Europe, and I do think there is less of a cultural…

I work in the education system and the primary reason there's been a lot of push for women in tech is due to the negativity around technology / computers. Girl enjoy the use of technology, but they would never pursue it as a career since it's not the "cool" thing to do. You get labeled as a geek, a nerd, etc. You basically become an outsider. When you're young, it's all about reputation. This is why people are trying…

Does this mean that tech is inherently the "cool" thing to do? Or that men are less likely to be labeled as a geek, a nerd etc? Or less susceptible for this? The way you put it, it seems to me like somehow these effects are less strong for men. Why would that be the case?
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