Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum • Hacker News Board

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#121

Post by jrockway » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

dmschulman wrote: post #12

Wow, Gwern from gwern.net is implicated in this. No idea he moderates that subreddit. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out considering Gwern has a few essays on self-experimentation with drugs and discloses they were purchased from Darknet vendors. Despite the articles pertaining to illicit substances the experiments in question were exceedingly academic (like much of Gwern's writings).

The feds don't have that good of a case against Gwern, if they even wanted to prosecute him for simple possession. He could be writing fiction, for all they know; to convict him in court, they'd have to prove that he possesses illegal substances, which he has presumably consumed by now.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't foresee much prison time in Gwern's future. There are bigger fish to fry.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#122

Post by higherpurpose » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #3

We (speaking as a netizen) need Usenet 2.0; eg: something that can fulfill the role of reddit that is decentralized/distributed. Perhaps reddit can even transition into being a reader (a la google reader) for people that don't want to set up their own node. I'm not saying that drug discussion is the quintessential act that deserves to be protected, but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get t…

Someone actually started an "anonymous Reddit" app about two years ago. But the sole developer was then hired by Google, I think. I don't remember the name of the app, but it was kind of alpha mode and pretty slow.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#123

Post by adventured » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:40 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #97

pyre wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!" In light of this, how…

That's mainly an issue with the poverty of the English language, in most languages, they are categories of criminals and they are called differently.

That's blatantly not true. The English language is overflowing with options, at different levels of character or crime, when it comes to describing people.

Murderer, killer, rapist, pedophile, wife beater, convict, criminal, felon, thief, liar, embezzler, con artist, forger, bum, hobo, dishonest, deceitful, traitor, unethical, petty criminal, cheat, scammer, scam artist, pick pocket, snake oil salesman, chiseler, crooked, unfaithful, drunk, addict.

And a thousand more various categories to toss people into (some refer to crimes, some refer to moral character or life situation, and some blend multiple attributes depending on context).

If a person is a rapist, you call them a rapist and not a murderer, and people know the difference. If a person is a convicted thief, you can call them a petty criminal, and nobody would confuse that with being a serial killer.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#124

Post by rayiner » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:40 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #52

sliverstorm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite legal defense, moral relativism. "One day, this heinous crime I have committed might not be illegal. Knowing that, how can you possibly convict me!?"

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!" In light of this, how…

Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though. Aside from marijuana, the overwhelming majority of the population supports keeping drugs illegal. Support for legalizing things like cocaine is under 10%. And the homosexuality reference above is a red-herring. Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#125

Post by DanBC » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #62

pjc50 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Usenet 1.0 was decentralised, and people need to think about the disadvantages. In the early 2000s well over 50% of the traffic was spam cancels. An forum without an "owner" who can delete posts and effectively ban spammers and "abuse" will promptly be filled with spam and abuse. The issue of "abuse" which is harmful to people other than users of the forum should also be considered carefully.

I remember usenet becoming basically unreadable from the spam and abuse (both commercial and otherwise, everybody's favorite nazi weev did a lot to kill usenet back in the day)

I don't remember weev from any Usenet groups I used. I do remember hipcrime sporges.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#126

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #73

ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

Well, looking through the article it seems as if the government wants Reddit to cough up the identities of these 5 people because they've spoken about or otherwise implied knowledge of who the administrators were on a drug trading operation. Now of course there might be prosecutors intending to charge them as accessories, but it might be as simple as wanting to compel testimony about the admins. For example, Suppose…

[deleted]

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#127

Post by Crito » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #66

dublinben wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they are criminals They likely disagree that their "crimes" ought to be illegal, and do not accept the legitimacy of any punishment for such behavior. Why should they have to "make a choice" and make "better decisions" when they don't believe what they've done is wrong?

Bernie Madoff didn't think he was doing anything wrong either. Why should he have to make a choice? The only reason you are making this comment is because you don't believe drugs (and drug dealing) should be illegal.

> "Bernie Madoff didn't think he was doing anything wrong either."

Do you have a source for that? I would have expected that he knew that what he was doing was wrong, but did not care because he was greedy. Disagreeing with a law and disregarding the law are two separate concepts. People often do one without doing the other.

His apology that he delivered before sentencing suggests that he knew it was wrong. Of course it would be incredibly foolish to take such an apology at face value, but it would be interesting if there are any statements made by him at other times that contradict this.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#128

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

There are multiple 'grades' of criminals. All of them have one thing in common, they broke the law.

But the law is so widely varied that to group all these people under the same heading and to narrow it down to choice is in quite a few cases simply in error, depending on who you are, where you are and what your genetic make-up is.

Lots of things that are criminal in one place are considered health issues in another, mental health issues in a third and non-issues in a fourth.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#129

Post by hkmurakami » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:55 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #107

From NSWGreat's AMA linked in the article: > The Darknet is amazing, its changing the drug scene for the better. Its taking away the violence and the dangers that are inherit with buying drugs. Never thought about it this way, but as everyone is talking and writing endlessly about how taxi rides will be revolutionized by billion-dollar Silicon Valley start-ups I found this insight about the drug-market fascinating. O…

Similar things have been said about Redbook, which was the prostitution equivalent. Discussing and "vetting" of customers allowed the (mostly) women to protect themselves better compared to soliciting "business" on street corners.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#130

Post by downandout » Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 9:56 PM UTC

I actually predicted that this would happen [1]. That particular Evolution thread had a ton of very incriminating statements in it. This shouldn't be surprising; don't post in public forums talking about your highly illegal activities.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9229342