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Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

jacquesmattheij.com

121–130 of 234 posts

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#121
post #40

The main tenet of this blog post is that you should argue for your compensation based on the amount of value you add to the company. That's nice in theory, but the techies' dilemma is that it's often difficult or impossible to put a hard number on the value they have added. How many customers were retained because you decreased response times by 100ms? How many customers were gained because of that slick UI you creat…

>The reality is, you're basically going to get paid based upon what your employer has deemed everyone else in your position is earning, plus or minus some % based upon experience level, your reputation, and how badly the company needs the position filled. If you don't like that, time to go into management or sales.

Pretty much this. If you are not part of the profit generating side of the business, you will always be viewed as a cost overhead. Engineering is unfortunately a question of cost expenditure for businesses but even more so for smaller software companies who don't have monopoly.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#122
In something like 25 years in this industry I have seen this opinion time and time again. "I am not being paid what I'm worth". You can negotiate to higher levels of compensation, but there is more to life (and your job) than money. I have often seen people price themselves out of a job.

A normal high tech company runs an R&D budget that is less than 10% of earnings. The rest of the money goes to cost of sales, infrastructure (building, chairs, etc) and various other things. This means that on average your contribution needs to pull in at least 10x your cost in order for you to be seen as being worth it. There are also a lot of costs for hiring employees -- employee tax, insurance, benefits, etc, etc. So if you make $100K in salary, then your contribution has to bring in maybe $1.2 - $1.5 million.

You may think "Oh those bastard sales people are making way too much and aren't providing any benefit", but you will find that the company will still budget less than 10% of earnings for R&D. Whether it is justified or not, quite a few of the people in the "management side" identify a lot better with sales and understand their value a lot more. Unless you think of a way to significantly increase earnings, then you are depleting the pool of cash for R&D when you ask for a raise.

"Not my problem," you think.

Except Jane down the corridor appears to be very nearly as productive as you are (whether it is true or not is completely beside the point because everything will be judged by its appearances). She makes something like 60% of what you make. She's a freaking bargain! You, on the other hand, bitch and moan that you can't make ends meet on $100K and that you are living out of garbage bins. Plus you see yourself as the saviour of the company and without you everything will just collapse. Managers think, "God, please don't make me talk to that guy again".

The order comes down from above -- either 1) Our competitors are kicking our ass and we need to downsize R&D OR 2) We need to ramp up explosively to hit the next big business wave, so we need more programmers!

How will we reduce our expenditures or hire more programmers with the same amount of money? Easy! We'll do away with those bitchy-moany prima donnas and hire more of the absolute bargains that never complain.

Here's a secret I've learned. Being seen as worth significantly more than you are paid means your boss always approaches you with a sense of gratitude. In fact, creating a sense of solidarity with management in this respect shows loyalty. While it is true that, in general, companies do not return such loyalty, individuals in management will tend to select a handful of people that they trust and "can not do without". Those people will not be the guys that constantly threaten to leave for greener pastures, or that constant complain that they aren't appreciated.

I have never negotiated salary. I have either taken what has been offered and then worked hard to become an integral member of the team or I have refused the job. I have left jobs that I didn't like, but I have never left to make more money. Nor have I ever threatened to do so. I probably get paid less than I might if I pushed hard, but I can tell you that I enjoy the privileges of being "that dependable guy" much more than any salary could provide.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#123

Here is another similar guide. Easier said than done of course. http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

Patrick has done a much better job at this than me and I wholly second this, please read his guide first, then skim mine to see if there is anything useful in it. When I wrote mine Patrick's did not exist yet, if it had then I would have happily skipped writing it.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#124
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a $15K raise last month, from $60 to $75K. I expect a much bigger one next year. It's not impossible to get those raises, but you have to align your thinking with the way the company operates, have supporters in the company, and bring real value to the table. If you're just checking boxes or asking for more money "just because", then you deserve the arched eyebrow you're bound to get.

a 25% raise is unlikely next year, sounds to me that this was more of a salary adjustment than a raise which are typically between 3-9%. At your salary level it's not uncommon to have adjustments to bring you in line with others in your team. Possibly they started you low to see how it would work out.

or he could go get a competing offer with a 50% raise ;)

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#125
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I like to say "Just pay me more, I can take care of my own perks. Promise." Sure, free food is great and all. But we're not kindergarteners are we? I'm an adult and I like to take care of my own food (and such). Free beer and pizza is for helping your friend move. Or for giving a talk at a *camp event. It's not for producing hundreds of thousands if not millions in value for your employer.

As an employer that provides free food, I think there's more to it than that in that both sides receive more value. We don't provide free food in order to pay our employees less. We provide free food because we see a lot of value in everyone eating together and employees get a lot of value in just not having to think about lunch or spend the time to go out and eat somewhere. I think most people get more value you out…

It's also a social signal for social animals: "We are doing well, we have ample necessities, you should be with our group."

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#126
post #68

If you want to know what companies offer as base salaries check this website I made that uses H1B wage data. The tech companies have a very wide range for negotiation at each level and it's important to know that when you go into salary negotiations. Although this is H1B data, for top companies these are the same base salaries that US residents are also making, and they are pretty damn high....Look at google for exam…

That is an absolutely fascinating data set.

I'm really curious, for the technical salaries that are 500k+, does anyone know what is going on? There basically appear to be a bunch of random system analyst, database administrator and similar positions pulling down 600k in the most random places around the country.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#127

Another B.S. article about negotiating IT salary's. If IT salary's kept pace back before the Dot bomb days everyone would be making 150k starting. Here is why we don't IT has for the most part never been a money maker of a lot of companies. They see it as a loss leader. IT is seen as the "Oh boy here comes the IT budget again." Unless of course your business is making software for the masses. But then I have been at…

> They see it as a loss leader.

Cost center, not loss leader.

It helps to be in an IT-focused company, vs a company that has an IT department. I've been in both and the former is vastly better.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#129
post #12

Free food is such a no-brainer, if you're a manager. For £5 of pizza you can get £50-100 of work, easy, and the workers think they're getting the better deal...

I feel like this is something that only inexperienced people fall for though. It's nice to get food, but perks like agency, autonomy, and trust are so much more important than free soda and pizza. Especially when I can get paid more and buy the kind of snacks I like.

It is a bit more complex than that, a generation of geeks have been socialised to believe that eating free pizza at work is "living the dream". Even guys who are well experienced in the industry can fall for it. There are a whole bunch of tricks a savvy employer can use that cost next to nothing compared to the overtime the workers do in return for it.

Re: Salary negotiations for techies (2011)

#130
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employer that provides free food, I think there's more to it than that in that both sides receive more value. We don't provide free food in order to pay our employees less. We provide free food because we see a lot of value in everyone eating together and employees get a lot of value in just not having to think about lunch or spend the time to go out and eat somewhere. I think most people get more value you out…

I agree with this. My employer provides free lunch three days per week and I find myself wishing it was every day. Going out and finding lunch on my own is a huge hassle and takes a long time. I'm happy to quickly pop down to the cafeteria, grab a bite, and head right back to work. Win win.

They've done a number on you!
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