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My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

johannhari.com

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Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#121

Post by Nrsolis »

onedev wrote: post #82
throwaway3173 wrote: post #25

I've been taking 200mg of Modafinil probably on average of 3 times a week for the best part of 4 years now and it has certainly changed my life for the better. It is very effective at raising my mood and motivation. I disagree that it doesn't have a stimulant-like effect though. Before taking Modafinil, I had a very high caffeine tolerance (I could drink as many cokes or coffees as I liked and not even notice the eff…

Where do you get it? I'm very, very curious.

Modafinil is easy to get a legal prescription for in the US. It certainly was for me.

I get mine paid for by insurance.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#122

Post by wpietri »

teddyh wrote: post #105
wpietri wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol? How about your artificial light and your exercise? Or perhaps your intake of B-complex vitamins or various edible oils? The various natural dietary supplements available at every Walgreens and CVS? All of these have known effects on mood and productivity, and pretty much everybody just tries 'em and sees what happens. Nearly as many people have the experience of g…

> Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol? Strawman. I said “ or be deemed safe for sale over the counter”. > many people have the experience of going to a doctor, getting diagnosed with something moderately uncommon, and going through a trial-and-error treatment process where they are guiding what happens as much or more than the doctor. The key word here are, I think, “ going to a doctor ”, as opposed…

That is not a straw man. My point is that the distinction between "thing I am doing to my body alone" and "thing I am doing to my body with the involvement of a licensed professional" is somewhat arbitrary.

Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter. But still, we sell it over the counter. Having a licensed professional involved on average makes some things better, but only on average, and only for some things. You don't have to be insane to say, "For X, I know better than my doctor." Indeed, that's an important component of people getting optimal treatment outcomes, doctor or no.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#123

Post by teddyh »

wpietri wrote: post #122
teddyh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol? Strawman. I said “ or be deemed safe for sale over the counter”. > many people have the experience of going to a doctor, getting diagnosed with something moderately uncommon, and going through a trial-and-error treatment process where they are guiding what happens as much or more than the doctor. The key word here are, I think, “ going to a doctor ”, as opposed…

That is not a straw man. My point is that the distinction between "thing I am doing to my body alone" and "thing I am doing to my body with the involvement of a licensed professional" is somewhat arbitrary. Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter. But still, we sell it over the counter. Having a licensed professional involved on average makes some things better, but only on average, and only for some th…

> My point is that the distinction between "thing I am doing to my body alone" and "thing I am doing to my body with the involvement of a licensed professional" is somewhat arbitrary.

Then you should have made that point explicitly. Instead, it looks like you are arguing against something I did not write.

And yes, the line is very arbitrary. However, that doesn’t mean that it does not exist, or that you are free to set it anywhere you feel like without worry or care. Unless you have the enormous resources to research on your own (but you don’t, nobody does), you should pick some other party which has done so (scientifically) and has subsequently set the line somewhere. And unless you have reason to doubt their veracity, you should adhere to that line. No, “I feel like it, it could be fun” or “I could make more money by using these performance-enhancing drugs” are not good enough reasons.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#124

Post by Xophmeister »

aantix wrote: post #81
Xophmeister wrote: post #46

I tried modafinil for about a month -- maybe a bit longer; I don't remember -- and believe it had the desired effect (although I'm not convinced that wasn't a placebo). I felt more focused and, importantly, less prone to anxiety and depression, without the unstable skittishness that, say, caffeine gives me. (That said, it made my pee smell rather funky!) After researching as much as I could, I felt the risk was accep…

L-tyrosine may have a similar effect but cheaper. It certainly can replace the daily cup of coffee for focus.

I always suspected cheese was the answer

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#125

Post by MattWilliams456 »

Very provoking article. A little correction though, although Sartre found inspiration for his writing from his mescaline experiences (especially for Nausea) he did not write on mescaline, he rather preferred amphetamines. On the same note the lobsters only(!) stayed with him a few years not for the rest of his life.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#126

Post by theorique »

wpietri wrote: post #122
teddyh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does your doctor prescribe your caffeine and alcohol? Strawman. I said “ or be deemed safe for sale over the counter”. > many people have the experience of going to a doctor, getting diagnosed with something moderately uncommon, and going through a trial-and-error treatment process where they are guiding what happens as much or more than the doctor. The key word here are, I think, “ going to a doctor ”, as opposed…

That is not a straw man. My point is that the distinction between "thing I am doing to my body alone" and "thing I am doing to my body with the involvement of a licensed professional" is somewhat arbitrary. Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter. But still, we sell it over the counter. Having a licensed professional involved on average makes some things better, but only on average, and only for some th…

Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter.

Say what?

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#127

Post by gwern »

ggreer wrote: post #18
noname123 wrote: post #15

I tried Provigil two years ago and it came in powder format and I had to mix it. It tasted bitter and had no pronounced effect me. I had better response to coffee but then again they say placebo is hell of a drug.

That doesn't sound like modafinil at all. I've never heard of it being sold outside of pill form. Typical dosage is 75-150mg, making a powder easy to mis-dose. Although overdosing on modafinil isn't possible, too much would result in unpleasant side-effects: stomach pains, headache, nausea, insomnia, etc. Also, the effects of modafinil are obvious. In addition to being coffee++, the metabolites make your urine and sw…

> I've never heard of it being sold outside of pill form.

Powder is not unheard of: Air Sealed use to sell modafinil powder sourced from Sun, which was apparently legitimate and quite competitive on a per mg basis.

But as far as I know, they were the only powder source and they shut down quite a while ago (maybe 2011? I'd have to check my price-tables to see when I dropped them), and only in the past few months have any new powder vendors showed up (on the blackmarkets). So unless one of us is considerably off on dates or my knowledge of modafinil sellers is less complete than I thought, I'm not sure where noname123 could've gotten modafinil powder.

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#128

Post by gwern »

tokenadult wrote: post #57
quotemstr wrote: post #31

If you think Modafinil and Provigil are controversial today, wait until we have genome-editing techniques for increasing intelligence. Transhumanism is inevitable. I really do not understand the opposition to allowing individuals to increase their intelligence.

Genome-editing techniques for increasing intelligence look like they are a very long way off, as I have learned from the behavior geneticists with whom I participate in a journal club.[1] [1] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614...

What is the connection between that paper and your claim?

Re: My experiment with smart drugs (2008)

#129

Post by wpietri »

theorique wrote: post #126
wpietri wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a straw man. My point is that the distinction between "thing I am doing to my body alone" and "thing I am doing to my body with the involvement of a licensed professional" is somewhat arbitrary. Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter. But still, we sell it over the counter. Having a licensed professional involved on average makes some things better, but only on average, and only for some th…

Alcohol is not in fact safe for sale over the counter. Say what?

"Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years." from http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

"5,000 people under age 21 die each year from alcohol-related car crashes, homicides, suicides, alcohol poisoning, and other injuries such as falls, burns, and drowning. [...] More than 190,000 people under age 21 visited an emergency room for alcohol-related injuries in 2008 alone." from http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/special-populations-...

If somebody invented it today, it would be thoroughly illegal. My point here is that teddyh's conflation of "legal to buy without a prescription" and "safe" is incorrect.

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