Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

Post by igouy » Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 10:23 PM UTC

platz wrote: post #117

igouy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Idiomatic" in whose opinion? "Idiomatic" is a slogan not a well-defined property. The reason for people to bother adding "idiomatic" versions, is that other people really do work through looking at the source code "on an individual basis, one at a time."

This exact thread came up last year when we started talking about the shootout and haskell. And Its always the same people who bring up the shootout and defend the existing entries. Please stop bringing up the shootout (esp when haskell is mentioned) and dragging everyone through this conversation again. Benchmarks are great to debate but this one is causing more harm than good; let's talk about other benchmarks.

Post by imanaccount247 » Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 11:02 PM UTC

igouy wrote: post #112

imanaccount247 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't exclude "idiomatic" versions, but the data is presented so as to make them useless. How do I compare "idiomatic" rust to "idiomatic" haskell? All you can get is "here's the fastest versions from each language". If you want to compare any other version you have to do it on an individual basis, one at a time. So there's absolutely no reason for people to bother adding "idiomatic" versions.

"Idiomatic" in whose opinion? "Idiomatic" is a slogan not a well-defined property. The reason for people to bother adding "idiomatic" versions, is that other people really do work through looking at the source code "on an individual basis, one at a time."

Post by igouy » Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 11:19 PM UTC

imanaccount247 wrote: post #124

igouy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Because they don't all use pcre. Duh? "Duh?" because you haven't looked at the code? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/program.php?tes... http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/program.php?tes... >>Why on earth would the code change because of a new compiler release? New GHC releases (and libraries) have in the past provided new ways to write the code. >>what "better" do you want? Any "better" that…

>"Duh?" because you haven't looked at the code? Me: "Not all use pcre" You: "Two that use pcre" What on earth is that supposed to show? >Any "better" that 6 or 7 releases has provided. You have some weird ideas about haskell/ghc.

Post by codygman » Sun, Dec 14, 2014, 1:23 AM UTC

jakevn wrote: post #73

imanaccount247 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>fannkuch-redux heavily utilizes unsafe operations on a mutable vector. They are just not bounds checked. That is not "writing C in Haskell". >binary-trees uses artificial strictness for the sake of the benchmark What on earth is "artificial strictness"? Forcing evaluation when you need something to be evaluated immediately is not artificial, not unidiomatic, and not "writing C in Haskell". >Nine of the ten Haskell i…

The Rust code is both safer and faster at the cost of more keystrokes. I'm not certain the point of writing unsafe code in Haskell when there are better tools for the job. Haskell is fast enough as is and using it to hammer screws just reeks of wrong tool for the job.

    $ patscc -I/home/cody/sources/ATS-Postiats-contrib/contrib -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=native pidigits.dats -o bin/pidigits.ats_run -lgmp
    $ gcc -pipe -Wall -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=native  pidigits.c -o bin/pidigits.gcc_run -lgmp
    $ time ./bin/pidigits.gcc_run 10000 > /dev/null
    
    real	0m0.969s
    user	0m0.963s
    sys	0m0.004s
    $ time ./bin/pidigits.ats_run 10000 > /dev/null
    
    real	0m0.972s
    user	0m0.968s
    sys	0m0.004s
    $ ls -larth bin/pidigits.*
    -rwxrwxr-x 1 cody cody 15K Dec 13 18:59 bin/pidigits.ats_run
    -rwxrwxr-x 1 cody cody 14K Dec 13 18:59 bin/pidigits.gcc_run

    $ g++ -c -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=native -std=c++0x k-nucleotide_gpp3.c++ 
    $ $(PATSCC) -DATS_MEMALLOC_LIBC -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=native -std=c99 k-nucleotide.dats 
    $ patscc -DATS_MEMALLOC_LIBC -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=native -std=c99 k-nucleotide.dats 
    $ time ./k-nucleotide_gpp3