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Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

m.bbc.co.uk

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Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#121

Post by andrewfong »

madaxe_again wrote: post #98
netcan wrote: post #47

I think this is an example of contracts being broken, often online but elsewhere too. You can't rent a hotel room without a credit card which helps hotels avoid you running off without paying for minibar peanuts or rock star damage to a room. OTOH, the fact that you can't update your iphone, rent a hotel room or do a lot of other things without agreeing to a "contract" or policy so long that it's impractical to read…

On the note of bullshit contracts... We are about to shell out ~£15k to a recruiter who sent us the CV of someone (completely cold, without the person's consent, or us having any relationship with them) we hired via another recruiter, but a year down the line are pressing a claim, as in their contract, receiving an email from them is deemed acceptance. This is apparently perfectly legal in the UK, and I'm considering…

Ooh, that gives me an idea: What if I put a clause in my T&C stating that if you run a business and use my service, you agree to not be an ass about your own T&Cs (with an appropriate definition of ass-ish behavior)? And what if a whole slew of other start-ups did as well?

Probably not enforceable -- but it'd be hilarious if having a no-bad-review clause in your T&C made you liable to, for example, the Flappy Bird developer.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#122

Post by LunaSea »

madaxe_again wrote: post #113
JonnieCache wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A judge is actually ordering you to cough up? Can you share any more details?

No, we're fighting via our lawyer, but if it does end up in court, we will likely lose as contract law is pretty strong in the UK - and apparently this is a significant part of this recruiter's business model, so they're well practised at it and have test cases in which they've been victorious.

Just forward their emails to the UK government and wait to see if they will cough-up money too.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#123

Post by reduce »

rmc wrote: post #66
ascorbic wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has similar rules. In this case it would be the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations that would apply, and which these clearly breach. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_pr...

It's an EU law. God bless the EU's consumer rights campaign.

EU doesn't exactly make law. They make more of suggestions. Some of the countries do the drastic opposite of the EU "laws", even if on paper they're saying they don't.

For example, many types of racial discrimination are technically illegal in many EU countries. But look at what actually gets enforced, it's unfortunately made to look like a huge joke.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#125

Post by reduce »

scott_w wrote: post #45
reduce wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many parts of Europe (among the countries I've worked) the written word of contracts is worshiped as the ultimate authority. What's "the right thing to do" means nothing by comparison. You sign, you're bound by it, unless you put up a massive legal fight. Not only that, but signed contracts are expected to be used vastly more than in the US. It's a bit of a culture shock when you see the sharp difference in this r…

I'm not sure what countries you've been in, but British culture is definitely not like that. B2B transactions do have more emphasis on following the rules of the contract, as two businesses are seen as being on a more "even playing field". B2C transactions, however, rely heavily on consumer protection legislations (Sale of Goods Act, Supply of Goods and Services Act, Unfair Contract Terms Act), which recognise that m…

I'll just put this here, since I can't edit my previous comment: Thanks for all the downvotes for sharing a differing life experience, you who downvoted. You shouldn't downvote just because you disagree. Hacker news is so hostile.

By the way, I wasn't talking about Briton, Germany, France or any of Western Europe.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#126

Post by perlpimp »

madaxe_again wrote: post #113
JonnieCache wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A judge is actually ordering you to cough up? Can you share any more details?

No, we're fighting via our lawyer, but if it does end up in court, we will likely lose as contract law is pretty strong in the UK - and apparently this is a significant part of this recruiter's business model, so they're well practised at it and have test cases in which they've been victorious.

Have you signed an exclusive contract in ink? If not then coder is a shared resource. Though laws can be draconian and make you guilty even in event of actual innocence.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#127

Post by joopxiv »

madaxe_again wrote: post #113
JonnieCache wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A judge is actually ordering you to cough up? Can you share any more details?

No, we're fighting via our lawyer, but if it does end up in court, we will likely lose as contract law is pretty strong in the UK - and apparently this is a significant part of this recruiter's business model, so they're well practised at it and have test cases in which they've been victorious.

A contract doesn't mean anything unless you actually sign it. Which I understand you didn't.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#128

Post by netcan »

moron4hire wrote: post #103
netcan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, if you tossed out the law books you would get a very different set of laws. Laws have a long tradition inherited over thousands of years. Contracts is one of those traditions. It's a good tradition. It's just taken a bad turn, being applied badly to the wrong kinds of things.

Good point, we would end up with different laws. Probably wholly worse laws. They'd certain pay lip service to concepts of liberty, but there'd be so many disclaimers and emergency provisos that it wouldn't mean anything.

I'm not as pessimistic as you. I don't think we need revolutions, just a moderately substantial adjustment to laws which take the flashing signs of absurdities as evidence that some premise is incorrect. In this case, the premise to adjust is (imo) the definition of contract or agreement that's all.

Rather than all the consumer protection approach which is hairy and ambiguous, just leave contract laws roughly where they are and applicable only to things which are to some degree of accuracy real agreements.

If a company is informing you of the rules of a game which you have no control over, lets not call that an agreement. Those rules can be subject to as many or as few consumer protection laws and regulators as we like but taking the stupid "but they agreed to pay £100 for posting a bad review" argument completely out of the picture.

If a hotel has a "no breakfast after 10am" policy. That's fine. House rules. No need for a contract.

Re: Couple 'fined' £100 for leaving a bad review

#129

Post by netcan »

madaxe_again wrote: post #98
netcan wrote: post #47

I think this is an example of contracts being broken, often online but elsewhere too. You can't rent a hotel room without a credit card which helps hotels avoid you running off without paying for minibar peanuts or rock star damage to a room. OTOH, the fact that you can't update your iphone, rent a hotel room or do a lot of other things without agreeing to a "contract" or policy so long that it's impractical to read…

On the note of bullshit contracts... We are about to shell out ~£15k to a recruiter who sent us the CV of someone (completely cold, without the person's consent, or us having any relationship with them) we hired via another recruiter, but a year down the line are pressing a claim, as in their contract, receiving an email from them is deemed acceptance. This is apparently perfectly legal in the UK, and I'm considering…

Wow. Infuriating (and expensive).

I think this is a good example of how the current approach is broken. The "consumer protection" approach which basically deems clauses as valid or not is much weaker for businesses.

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