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How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

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Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#121

Post by infinite8s »

Houshalter wrote: post #65
sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

Has the LHC ever produced any benefit to humanity? Serious question.

You could ask that of any basic scientific discovery in the history of humanity, with the answer of "eventually".

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#122

Post by murbard2 »

sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

Great documentary, I really enjoyed it.

You'll notice that the member of congress mentions that Europe will build it anyway, so why waste US taxpayer money?

Europe did indeed build the LHC, and whatever value there is in discovering the origins of the universe is now enjoyed by the entire world. So what exactly was wrong with his argument?

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#123

Post by induscreep »

hellgas00 wrote: post #87
Zikes wrote: post #50

What about three times as much on a video game nobody's heard of? http://freebeacon.com/issues/feds-spent-10-million-on-a-vide...

Does it lead to kids changing their dietary habits? I would have to guess not. If it did, would it be justifiable? The effectiveness of the product should be discussed first then the cost effectiveness of the product can be considered. There is no point of waving and screaming look at all of this money being spent on this thing, unless you also examine the thing which the money is being spent on.

I saw discussion about this on reddit. The top comment noted that kids sit on the couch (and do not need move) while playing this video game - so it's not clear how this video game helps.

I guess it's a very bad idea that also was poorly planned and managed.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#124

Post by induscreep »

What I don't understand is that this sort of thing happens between other sectors - for example, 'defense dollars could be used to provide healthcare', or 'subsidies could be used to pay teachers more and improve schools'.

In these cases, the sectors each have their own lobby, and they are able to fight back with publicity and ads.

But scientists are defenseless. Where is the pro-scientist lobby? Should universities just get together and throw some dollars at hiring a lobbying firm?

EDIT: the scientist lobby could release an ad that said this: "politicians are spending millions on armament that was never used and rusted away...do YOU want bacteria in your seafood? do YOU want cheap shrimp buffets? If so, say YES to NSF!" The "say yes to nsf" actually rhymes haha.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#125

Post by saalweachter »

trhway wrote: post #3

War on Science in US is astounding. It is amazing how US still manages to be ahead in most areas of science and technology.

The thing to remember is that the War on Science is really a lot of little battles. Science says a lot of things that people take offense to, inside or outside the US. For instance:

  * Releasing large amounts of carbon dioxide into the
    atmosphere has significant, negative consequences.
  * Most complementary & alternative medicines are ineffective
    in most cases.
  * Contraceptions are not abortifacients.
  * Tobacco use causes cancer.
  * There is no compelling evidence that ESP or any other
    psychic powers exist.
  * Cuts to government spending during a downturn can weaken
    the economy.
  * Oswald, acting alone and for his own reasons, killed
    Kennedy.
  * Evolution explains the diversity of life on Earth,
    including humans.
But just because someone takes offense to one or more things science says, most people don't take offense to all things science says. This fragments the War -- there aren't two sides, there are a million -- and lets science as a whole progress even as individual areas and projects face varying amounts of hostilities from individuals, organizations, and corporations.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#126

Post by tzs »

saalweachter wrote: post #125
trhway wrote: post #3

War on Science in US is astounding. It is amazing how US still manages to be ahead in most areas of science and technology.

The thing to remember is that the War on Science is really a lot of little battles. Science says a lot of things that people take offense to, inside or outside the US. For instance: * Releasing large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere has significant, negative consequences. * Most complementary & alternative medicines are ineffective in most cases. * Contraceptions are not abortifacients. * Tobacco use cau…

How does science say that Oswald was acting alone and for his own reasons? I am aware of how it can show he was the only shooter, but have not seen any science showing that no one else was involved in the overall operation.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#127

Post by rwallace »

That's a great explanation - for an audience willing to take the time to read it. But your arsenal of political weapons needs to include soundbites for an audience not willing to take the time to read. Here's how I would summarize the content more quotably:

"Actually it cost fifty dollars, and we were trying to figure out how to stop people dying of food poisoning. Is your life worth fifty dollars?"

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#128

Post by mgkimsal »

tzs wrote: post #126
saalweachter wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to remember is that the War on Science is really a lot of little battles. Science says a lot of things that people take offense to, inside or outside the US. For instance: * Releasing large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere has significant, negative consequences. * Most complementary & alternative medicines are ineffective in most cases. * Contraceptions are not abortifacients. * Tobacco use cau…

How does science say that Oswald was acting alone and for his own reasons? I am aware of how it can show he was the only shooter, but have not seen any science showing that no one else was involved in the overall operation.

i thought the same thing, although things like disproving the need for a 'magic bullet' takes the wind out of a lot of conspiracy theories. science may not ever 100% prove oswald was 100% alone, but it makes a lot of the whacko theories a lot less required.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#129

Post by cbd1984 »

evan_ wrote: post #114
hobs wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But science does have a sexual abuse problem. Some established male scientists do choose their female collaborators according to taste. Sexual violence does have a tendency of being initiated by men against women. I dont think you are wrong about this, but painting individual men with the same broad stroke that is frequently is being applied to women to dehumanize them and discount their achievements isnt the right…

> but painting individual men with the same broad stroke "Not all men!"

And I'm sure not all women are going to make snap judgements about a whole field based on what one person in the field wears, yet here we are.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#130

Post by lern_too_spel »

trhway wrote: post #93
lern_too_spel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't even read what the Petrie multiplier is, making your whole post a straw man attack.

man, 'vei just read what the Petrie multiplier is. It clearly explains why, given equal sexism by men and women, women's experience is worst. Thus to equalize experience, according to the Petrie multiplier, men should decrease their sexism way below women's. Forcing men to decrease their sexism way below women's is an attack on men by definition, and the Petrie multiplier provides mathematical foundation for it.

Is it really that much of a burden not to be sexist or racist? The obliviousness I see in this supposedly enlightened industry astounds me.
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