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What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

nytimes.com

121–130 of 215 posts

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#121
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially Calif…

Wouldn't the cost of living and taxes in those countries normalize the incomes a little bit?

Expenses in Switzerland are very high but taxes are much lower than in the u.s. and wages are significantly higher than in the u.s. I can't help but feel like I was sold a lie when I lived in the u.s.

I'm not sure how other parts of Europe compare.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#122
post #85
post #62

[deleted]

Do you realize that it was Democrats, the "left" in US politics, who were opposed to MLK's message of equality and freedom for all? that the battle for Civil Rights was won thanks to Republicans, against Democrats? that it was Democrats who were the anti-abolitionist party?

> Do you realize that it was Democrats, the "left" in US politics, who were opposed to MLK's message of equality and freedom for all? that the battle for Civil Rights was won thanks to Republicans, against Democrats?

The Civil Rights Act of 1964

In the House:

- Southern Democrats voted 94% against it -- but Southern Republicans voted 100% against it.

- Northern Democrats voted 94% for it -- but Northern Republicans voted only 85% for it.

In the Senate:

- Southern Democrats voted 95% against it -- but Southern Republicans voted 100% against it.

- Northern Democrats voted 98% for it -- but Northern Republicans voted only 84% for it.

So, the strongest split wasn't party, but region -- the South was against it and the North was for it. But by party within either region, North or South, the Democrats were more for (or less against) it, while the Republicans were less for (or more against) it.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#123
post #56

Something that's always confused me about the world and people as a whole. Why are so many people hell bent on implementing some "moral standard" that everyone needs to follow? Honestly? There's this bizarre projection of the individual and his/her motivations onto every living being that fails to make any logical sense. Is there any psychological premise for why we feel the need to dictate the behavior of others suc…

MLK was a religious ministry, so his job was to spread some kind of moral standard on other people anyways. So 1) his moral standard where known 2) it was quite fair for his opponents to use those moral standards against him. (I'm not defending the letter or the FBI, I just think a minute detail of the story is consistent)

It's fair enough to characterize King's work as part religious ministry, and I think it's also fair to consider what it means that King's walk didn't live up to all of the standards one would assume would come with his apparent Christianity.

I'm not sure it is in fact fair "to use those moral standards against him", though, unless you're working with a conception of moral standards as a game in which the point is to cast your team into The Good Guys and the other team as The Bad Guys. And sure, some people play that exact game (the FBI is doing it here), but you can also approach moral standards as ideals which would make the world better if we could adhere to them. The latter conception still means that people who fail to keep standards can suffer natural consequences (as well as artificial ones of standing) if they don't adhere, but it's not much of an attack on the moral authority of the standard.

There's also a question of a sort of standards severability. King is known for agitating for racial equality and social justice, not for being a crusader for the virtues of chastity and fidelity. If he'd been known to privately abuse and privilege based on apparent race, or inclined to acquire wealth at the expense of others, that'd seem be a bigger deal.

Finally, a little bit of C.S. Lewis:

"The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual: the pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronising and spoiling sport, and back-biting, the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me, competing with the human self which I must try to become. They are the Animal self, and the Diabolical self. The Diabolical self is the worse of the two. That is why a cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But, of course, it is better to be neither."

Again, none of this is to discount the value it might have to consider an MLK with weaknesses and some questionable behavior. Or, for that matter, the value of fidelity.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#124
post #68
post #62

[deleted]

A Political Party is full of likeminded people. (Or it loses elections; see: Democrats) HN is not a HiveMind. https://mayday.us/

I think almost every group is a hivemind. And HN certainly shares characteristics of groupthink.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As compared to exactly which other government? Anywhere?

Comparisons are a Red Herring. The point is people erroneously "believe" in their government. That it does only the most necessarily evil and then only to bad people. Such beliefs are manifestly dangerous. They result in things such as Drug seizure laws, PATRIOT act, militarization of police, demonizaton of whistle blowers. DON'T trust authority, DON'T give authority powers assuming they will only be used for good, D…

Comparisons are not a red herring when the parent comment specifies a particular government.

In fact, that implicitly invites comparison.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#127
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill

I don't think the parent's point was that democracy is failing to do good, but that America is failing to do democracy.

Tell me what country isn't by your standards? Show me a list of democratic countries and I have no doubt I could dig up some really evil stuff on every single one of them.

Don't take my comment as an excuse or an argument that's it's OK. Governments are run by humans which regularly mess up despite their high hopes.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the harm that government does, anarchy is almost always worse.

Anarchy => no rulers not Anarchy => no rules

Rules come from somewhere.

That somewhere is rulers.

Therefore, no rulers => no rules.

Therefore, (Anarchy => no rulers) => (Anarchy => no rules).

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially Calif…

You're inventing all of that. 1) American workers don't work 60+ hours to earn 50% less than what people in Switzerland do. 2) The median income in the US is barely below that of Switzerland. 3) The average American worker does not work more than 45 hours per week for the median income. 4) If you compare people of a similar qualification + education + demographic, Americans earn more than people in Switzerland per ho…

I'm talking about IT workers. Average wages are 2x-3x of the u.s. Taxes are 11% to 21% depending in the canton vs the u.s which can be up to 40% in CA. Expenses are 2x in Switzerland but if you live in s.f. probably comparable.

I don't want this to get sidetracked to be a conversation about Switzerland though. In general life is better in Europe than the u.s. - less desperate. At least you have obamacare now.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#130
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent's point was that democracy is failing to do good, but that America is failing to do democracy.

Tell me what country isn't by your standards? Show me a list of democratic countries and I have no doubt I could dig up some really evil stuff on every single one of them. Don't take my comment as an excuse or an argument that's it's OK. Governments are run by humans which regularly mess up despite their high hopes.

I don't understand why this was directed at me.
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