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Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

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Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#121

Post by InclinedPlane »

kemiller wrote: post #31
Shivetya wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't DC just vote to legalize it, you just cannot buy or sell it. Here is to hoping the next big issue after marriage equality if fixing our drug laws, which are more damaging than many will admit and far too profitable to law enforcement and the prison industry.

@metrix many prisons are run by for-profit companies. It costs the taxpayers a lot, but there is profit to be made, and some elected officials benefit at least indirectly. edit: awkward wording

That's a common narrative, but it's not the driving force behind the drug war. Look at corruption, look at hardened attitudes on drugs, look at race, look at civil asset forfeiture, look at the militarization of law enforcement. That's where the momentum for the drug war is coming from, not so much from for-profit prison systems (though that does add a small component).

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#122

Post by adventured »

Alupis wrote: post #78
munificent wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is a pretty big boat and takes a while to turn around. You have to have patience and a longer view, but change does happen. In 2012 it was two states. Now it's four. We're getting there.

The issue at the Federal level is not too long ago the US went around bullying UN nations into signing a unified drug treaty which is in effect for I believe 90 years. The idea was that if all countries agree on banning certain drugs, it can have a more unified effort in eradicating said drugs. It mostly targeted hard drugs, but marijuana is also named in the treaty. It would be very difficult for the US to back out…

It will be very easy for the US to back out of or alter that treaty, for several reasons.

1) The US often does not abide by things the way most other countries are expected to. If we want to back out, nobody can stop us, there will be no negative consequences, nobody is going to embargo or sanction the US over the matter. Is that fair? Of course not, but that's one of the 'perks' of being the lone superpower.

2) Everybody else will celebrate. Most people realize at this point that prohibition does not work very well in most of the world (countries like Japan being the freak outlier due to culture; but I'd argue even they would benefit from liberalized drug policies).

3) The rest of the world wants to tear down the failed war on drugs that the US initiated. They will be eager to welcome a shift in attitude from the US Government. Now that the people of the US want to tear down the failed war on drugs, that is exactly what will happen, slowly but surely. Nothing can stop it now, there has been a fundamental culture shift in the US over the last 20 years, and once that goes a direction, there is nothing that can stop it (see: gay marriage, women's suffrage, civil rights).

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#123

Post by showerst »

mikeash wrote: post #80
chimeracoder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DC is the first place to vote for legalization on the East Coast. Well, DC is a city, and Portland, Maine actually already voted to legalize marijuana in 2013[0]. If DC were a state, it'd be the first state on the east coast, but it's not. It's the first city that is not part of a state (and therefore not subject to constitutional rights allowed states), which is what makes this case very interesting. DC is tricky…

Is it easier to pass an initiative in a city than in a state with a similar population? DC proper has a similar population to states like Wyoming and Vermont.

Still yes; DC has a 14 member city council that meets frequently with a long legislative session, and a mayor.

Even the smallest states have a few hundred legislators in 2 houses, and much shorter legislative calendars to get things done in.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#124

Post by adventured »

kemiller wrote: post #31
Shivetya wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't DC just vote to legalize it, you just cannot buy or sell it. Here is to hoping the next big issue after marriage equality if fixing our drug laws, which are more damaging than many will admit and far too profitable to law enforcement and the prison industry.

@metrix many prisons are run by for-profit companies. It costs the taxpayers a lot, but there is profit to be made, and some elected officials benefit at least indirectly. edit: awkward wording

The government is the for-profit prison system.

The money made on prisons, is made by construction firms, labor that works at the prison, and slave labor used to manufacture things. There is a ton of profit being made from government prisons.

I always find it bizarre that people point to the 5% to 8% problem - corporate prisons - and think that is the problem, while pretending the huge money that circles around the other 92% - the government prisons - is benign by comparison. The other 92% is even more vile than the 8% corporate prisons - it's 11 times larger.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#125

Post by anigbrowl »

Alupis wrote: post #118
anigbrowl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think up-or-down votes or referenda are more appropriate for that. Multilateral treaties are inherently legislative documents, and legislating-to-legislate looks like a self-defeating increase in complexity - there's a reason that governments have executive as well as legislative functions, even though they ,may not always yield results we like in the short term. I mean, imagine if the votes of US senators on indiv…

> I'm personally hoping the incoming congress gives the President fast-track authority to negotiate both the TPP and TTIP He doesn't need congressional approval -- that's exactly how the TPP has been getting negotiated this entire time -- and is exactly why it's so outstandingly bad. Back room deals regarding IP rights (pushed hard by the MPAA, RIAA and other lobbying organizations) among many other blanketed things…

You are mistaken. Existing negotiations are geared towards the production of a preliminary draft that would then be subject to legislative debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_(trade)

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33743.pdf http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/195858-white-hous...

(so much for the legislative branch)

I could say the same thing about the executive branch, which persons like yourself seem to think should merely administrate the legislative will. Our constitutional design institutionalizes tension between these two branches of government, and very explicitly grants the President power to make treaties, subject to a 2/3 approval from the Senate for ratification.

Trade agreements are not exactly the same as treaties, but there is ample precedent for Congress pre-emptively authorizing the President to negotiate them. The consitutional basis for this is discussed in some detail near the start of the CRS paper linked above.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#126

Post by seanalltogether »

arca_vorago wrote: post #14

I'm ready for Texas to follow suite. You think corn, wheat, cotton, cows, and oil are profitable? Wait till the congressmen and farmers understand how valuable MJ is as a cash crop, I predict legalization even in our red state within a decade.

Texas still has a lot of dry counties that would probably fight pretty hard against marijuana legalization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S....

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#127

Post by kmnc »

dbrannan wrote: post #119

I live in Alaska as a high school teacher. We lead the nation in welfare, alcohol abuse and fetal alcohol effects, suicide, sexually transmitted disease, credit card debt, number of women murdered, and domestic abuse. Now we are all going to be high as a kite, too. This does not make my job any easier.

So, basically every thing you listed can probably be directly related to Alcohol Abuse. Maybe, just maybe, giving people a healthier and less abusive vice will make your job easier.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#128

Post by adventured »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #121
kemiller wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@metrix many prisons are run by for-profit companies. It costs the taxpayers a lot, but there is profit to be made, and some elected officials benefit at least indirectly. edit: awkward wording

That's a common narrative, but it's not the driving force behind the drug war. Look at corruption, look at hardened attitudes on drugs, look at race, look at civil asset forfeiture, look at the militarization of law enforcement. That's where the momentum for the drug war is coming from, not so much from for-profit prison systems (though that does add a small component).

Not to mention private prisons have never been a large fraction of the prison system. The drug war dates to the late 1960s - and goes back further culturally. Corporate prisons were even less relevant when the drug war started putting tons of people in prison circa 1980, than they are today.

The problem is the US Government, and always has been.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#130

Post by adventured »

techpeace wrote: post #38
metrix wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profitable? It costs the state a lot to hold a prisoner.

I believe they're referring to the private prison industry, which makes a pretty penny off locking up non-violent drug offenders. Their trade organization listed liberalizing drug laws as a potential threat to their bottom line in their last annual report, so we can expect that they will fiercely lobby against anything happening at a federal level.

The government makes a lot more money locking people up than the private prison industry does.

It's 11 times larger. That's a lot of tax money to roll around in, and generates a ton of profit in the form of slave labor manufacturing, graft, jobs that politicians use as platforms, labor unions that get kickbacks and get to dole out well paying jobs.

What's the difference, when we're speaking of "profit" when it comes to whether the corporate prison generates a 7% margin, or whether that 7% goes to a union at a government prison? There is no real difference, it's just a matter of whose pocket the cash ends up in.

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