Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 141 posts

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#121

Post by silencio »

barsonme wrote: post #111
silencio wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree with calling drugs a "crutch". Nobody in their right mind would tell me that Singulair or Dulera is a crutch for my asthma. Nobody would call albuterol inhalers overprescribed or asthma overdiagnosed either. My allergist always has to tell me not to work my life around my triggers past a certain point too. Yet I hear it all the time about the Adderall and Vyvanse I used to take, and about ADHD. A…

I suppose a "crutch" in that if you are ever forced to leave them, you can't function the same. If you can control your ADHD off meds, then the meds would be considered a cruch (imo). Not to slight you at all -- I wish I had meds even right now, because managing without them sucks. A lot. But personally, I can't say I'd never want to be in a place where, as an adult, I have to learn to manage my life because I _can't…

In that sense, yes. It seems to be used (and I initially read your comment in this way) in a negative/shaming manner too often, in the "you can theoretically walk so why are you using crutches" sense. There's always degrees of control, right? Everyone with ADHD can live without it, but for more serious cases the quality of life would suffer so much that it's a question if it's worth living without it. That's my grudge - mine is so bad and sucks up so much of me that I can't imagine getting to a point without meds. Then again I know that's a barrier in itself - it's hard to imagine having no end date for taking meds and coming to grips with the idea that some part of you is deficient.

It's also kind of funny to me to think of "why need an unnecessary crutch" for everything else because society loves doing it so much for psychiatric disorders but not much else. I got the same reaction from some people over taking antidepressants (my parents gave in then, because yay suicidal ideation). I think it's harder to understand and empathize with something that's often invisible or an extension of something that affects everyone. My rambly HN comments and commit messages with the 5 minute timer for hyperfocus that you don't see looks totally different from me looking pale and coughing a lot.

re: pregnancy: stimulants are considered iffy, hence why you also can't drink much caffeine - premature births, withdrawal (!), birth defects, and the like. My obgyn, my psychiatrist, and my PCP also like to err on the side of taking as little as possible - I'm also off TCAs for nerve pain, and had to switch nasal sprays and to lower potency topical steroids for dermatitis - so nobody will write me a prescription. So I can't even take Intuniv (non-stimulant, taken at night due to drowsiness, maybe an option for you? meant for children but my adult ADHD-specializing psychiatrist really likes it for adults), not just the Vyvanse I used with it. Meanwhile, the possibility of a fetus exposed to insufficient oxygen for even a moment is so terrifying to them that they're willing to put me on _more_ meds if I'm one of those women that get worse during pregnancy. After I just stepped down due to better control too, dammit. I'm also expressly forbidden from skirting around exercise, one of my biggest avoidable triggers. Risk management is funny.

Thanks though :D and best of luck to you too with your life in general. I planned months in advance to set up maximal coping mechanisms and read a gazillion ADHD help books in preparation for this. If you can cope okay even if not by choice I am super jealous. I'm having a mini breakdown every day. And of course I went over my timer for this comment. I feel like I can scroll the comments on this story and tell who has ADHD depending on how long their comment is. :P

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#122

Post by throwaway9387 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #94
Xcelerate wrote: post #43

Well huh. I'd never thought I had ADHD, just a complete inability to motivate myself to do things. However, the descriptions in this article describe me perfectly! Everything seems dull, I'm constantly seeking new experiences, the idea of a daily routine terrifies me (even though my father keeps encouraging me to develop one), but I can play piano for an entire day.

Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood. I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.

I'm 32.

I've spent at least two decades depressed at my inability to get things done.

Earlier this summer, I tried to talk to my psychiatrist about my inability to reign my focus, and how that was severely impacting my life and my ability to accomplish my goals. Her responses both times were dismissive, that "No one likes doing boring things." Obviously... but the things I'd mentioned weren't boring to me. I had no idea how to help her understand.

Do you have any suggestions for talking to a psychiatrist?

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#123

Post by the_cat_kittles »

guiambros wrote: post #6

It's sad that the article didn't even mention exercise as a potential treatment for ADHD. The OP implies that kids will simply "grow out" of ADHD, drugs, or changing the environment may be enough. While these are valid solutions, exercise may be equally or even more effective. John J. Ratey, one of the pioneers of ADHD [1], recently wrote the excellent Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain [2…

as someone who was diagnosed adhd but am probably not any longer, i think basketball is a perfect solution. the game requires constant improvisation, which is a like crack to most novelty seekers. and then you get the second benefit (the intense physical work out) as a bonus, which maybe helps you grow out of adhd.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#124

Post by emcarey »

I'm an adult woman with adhd and it's definitely been an advantage as an entrepreneur. When I hyper focus on our company, brilliant things happen because I can think out of the box and my passion and obsession for our product has my undivided attention. Needing to constantly shift work environments, go for walks, and multitask has worked well for me in my startup life. However, in my former corporate life, it was at times crippling and embarrassing. I really appreciated this article because it elevates the need for those with adhd to choose the work environment best fit for their behavioral needs and hopefully sheds light to a wider audience that adhd is in fact 'a real thing'. In a previous corporate role, when i spoke to HR about my daily struggle working in an office environment with tv's on and lots of cubes with loud people talking, they didn't take me seriously and just thought it was a 'millennial' problem. I had to work saturday nights and sundays just to complete my work because during the work week it was so difficult to focus with all the surrounding noise. I lied to my manager about all my weekend work because she down played the very realness my adhd had on my ability to focus like I was making it up. I hope this article brings to light that many people do suffer from adhd and to take their work environment requests seriously. I hope it also encourages those with adhd to be more vocal about it.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#125

Post by ashleyp »

ahknight wrote: post #86
dasmithii wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction. This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.

There is no success because of ADHD. There is success despite having ADHD. It's not a personality trait that I cannot physically do something I want to do and need to do without medication and, frankly, I'm sick of people who don't experience it offering new theories on it as if they have some grand insight into it. Get a head injury that breaks your executive functions. Join us. Then try to offer it up as a personal…

Love a lot of your posts here you're very vocal and well explain. I'm an ADHDer, software developer, avid researcher, fascinated with neuroscience and cognitive science and studied modules of it in university. But I sense you've been reading a lot from Barkley? And Barkley unfortunately can be closed minded(his brother had ADHD and died in a car crash so it's understandable he's negative towards it). We've seen in neuroscience that certain characteristics in ADHD, i.e lack of inhibition can lead to positives. The brain compensates. Honestly, I feel in the next decade ADHD will be looked upon as a subset of personality/neurological traits, more in line with how as Aspergers is been seen nowadays.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#126

Post by ashleyp »

kurage wrote: post #28

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12. Classic, "textbook" example of one. I felt like it was a curse until I was about 20. I was put on Focalin, Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse over those years.. they all made me calm and focused. Without my meds, I used to live in my head all day, theorizing how the universe and neurons work.. playing with ideas, twisting shapes in my mind. I was also prone to depression, anxiety, and…

Really interesting and I've had some eye opening experiences with this.

May I ask, do you still play with ideas/how the universe works etc? Do you miss that at all?

Also, have you read "The power of now"?

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#127

Post by ajolly »

adhd_anon wrote: post #106
mfisher87 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do. Can you expand on this one?

Sure. So, I pay like $60 - $70 per month per person. I found highly detail oriented, responsible and non judgmental individuals via elance.com, guru.com, taskrabbit (before it changed its model.) I hired two people. All they have to do it ping me on Skype/Gmail and ping me every hour for a few hours from Mon - Sat. Once in the morning and 3 to 4 times in the evening. It just takes them a few seconds. That's it. They…

This seems very valuable. Would you be willing to share your hiring process, exactly what you asked of your assistants, ect?

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#128

Post by ajcarpy2005 »

54mf wrote: post #88
ajcarpy2005 wrote: post #61

Essential Fatty Acids play a role. It's not productive to focus on just one causal factor normally but EFA deficiency is quite common because of: 1. maligning of dietary fats 2. high cost of fish relative to other foods 3. time and effort required to cook eggs in morning and the tremendous marketing investments in easier but ultimately unsustainable 'foods' It's a shame that so much knowledge about human health goes…

[Citation Needed]

I'm not against citations but obviously it would be nice if we were amply schooled in the biological functions of dietary nutrients so that the knowledge was just more tacit.

On some level it feels like you're asking me to link to a proof that a2 + b2 = c2 solves for the hypotenuse of a triangle.

To learn about EFA's and their general function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid

Here's a start: CONCLUSION: The ratio of membrane omega-3 to omega-6 PUFAs can be modulated by dietary intake. This ratio influences neurotransmission and prostaglandin formation, processes that are vital in the maintenance of normal brain function. Source: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744

Some medical observations about EFA deficiency symptoms include: Symptoms of omega-3 fatty acid deficiency include fatigue, poor memory, dry skin, heart problems, mood swings or depression, and poor circulation. It is important to have the proper ratio of omega-3 and omega-6 (another essential fatty acid) in the diet. Source: http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty...

Notice the fatigue and poor memory.

Sources studying links between EFA's & ADHD:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601... (positive correlation found)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158 (this study doesn't include the term ADHD at all but it does speak of the need for EFA's in hippocampal neurogenesis, the common clinical finding of hippocampal atrophy in depressed patients, and the finding that EFA administration gives a statistically significant improvement in depressed patients in clinical trials. The reason this matters for our purposes is because the hippocampus

Hippocampus and amygdala morphology in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. The enlarged hippocampus in children and adolescents with ADHD may represent a compensatory response to the presence of disturbances in the perception of time, temporal processing (eg, delay aversion), and stimulus seeking associated with ADHD. Disrupted connections between the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex may contribute to behavioral disinhibition. Our findings suggest involvement of the limbic system in the pathophysiology of ADHD. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869

OK, admittedly, I didn't know or expect to find that people with ADHD often have an !ENLARGED Hippocampus. This doesn't mean that EFA's aren't part of the problem/solution equation though.

Just knowing that the amygdala is involved should also cause us to form hypotheses about traumatic memories and anxiety type issues being co-involved with ADHD (struggle with learning, self-control of behavior)

Dietary studies are indicated to determine if essential fatty acid supplementation can influence central nervous system serotonin and dopamine metabolism and modify impulsive behaviors related to these neurotransmitters. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295

The brain is sufficiently complex and interconnected that when you see problems like ADHD (which generally seem to be very treatable/preventable/reversible with certain dietary choices rather than inherent structural problems from birth/genetics) strongly expressed in a person then you can be pretty sure that a large portion of nutrients which relate to brain development and health are either deficient or otherwise not being metabolized normally.

One of the first things IMO that should happen when trying to provide treatment for patients with any disease should be to question them about their diet and emphatically educate them on the critical and irreplaceable role of the different nutrients and how a lack of them may be effecting them. (commonly green vegetables, seafood, healthy fats, Magnesium...etc.)

The diet of most Americans in the last few decades may have increased in calories but I think it's become less diverse and inclusive in essential nutrition. This is arguably the cause of the rise in behavioral and mood disorders among our youth.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#129

Post by jacques_chester »

throwaway9387 wrote: post #122
jacques_chester wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood. I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.

I'm 32. I've spent at least two decades depressed at my inability to get things done. Earlier this summer, I tried to talk to my psychiatrist about my inability to reign my focus, and how that was severely impacting my life and my ability to accomplish my goals. Her responses both times were dismissive, that "No one likes doing boring things." Obviously... but the things I'd mentioned weren't boring to me. I had no i…

I think you should see a different psychiatrist.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#130

Post by jacques_chester »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #120
jacques_chester wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood. I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.

> It's made a positive difference on my life. // Because you're now under a regime of medication, or ...?

Ritalin.

Also trialled dextroamphetamine (worked badly for me) and straterra (did nothing). Ritalin helps a lot.

It's not magic. Exercise and quality sleep are important too, but were not enough by themselves.

Post reply on HN