Regardless of his technical achievements, learning a second language ( and such disconnected one ) is super impressive. Great job.
Hmm dude, everybody here who is not a native English speaker knows at least a second language on top of his mother tongue. I'm French, fluent in English and conversational in Spanish and German and I don't think it's so impressive. Chinese on the other hand is a bit tougher because the writing is so different.
Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
121–130 of 188 posts
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Watch reality Chinese television with subtitles. You get both the visual confirmation alongside the sound. They can be kind of a drag to get through (esp if you're used to HBO-level stuff), but the benefit of reality TV is that you can miss parts of a conversation and not be completely confused as to what's going on as there is no real plot.
can you recommend some shows/channels? Are there any online streams?
Some of the links are outdated, but there's a ton of info there, including descriptions, vocab lists, difficulty rankings and more.
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#123Regardless of his technical achievements, learning a second language ( and such disconnected one ) is super impressive. Great job.
Chinese is actually much more similar to English (structurally) than a lot of people realize: It doesn't mark case or gender like English (and it doesn't even really inflect verbs). The word order is for the most part the same or similar (German has this verb-at-the-end construction that you not only have to learn, but you have to train somewhat to remember enough context to bind the verbs to the clauses they apply t…
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#124his tones are off, but he has a pretty impressive vocabulary
I took Chinese in high school and did ok. Didn't use it and have tried to pick it up twice as an adult and have yet to get the tones down in conversation. Put a book in front of me, I can get it. Let me listen to someone speak it and I am lost. Any ideas on how to conquer that fault?
Use a tool like Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Find a recording of a native speaker that has a transcript.
Listen to a section of the recording.
Record yourself saying the same thing.
Listen back to your recording for mistakes and problems.
Repeat the record/listen cycle until you are happy.
Move on to the next segment.
Finally the most important part and key to the whole thing: do it every day. If you do 30 mins of this a day then you'll notice minor improvements after about a month and significant improvements after about three months.
Also, a shameless plug, check out http://www.chinese-forums.com/ which has a load of advice for learners of Chinese.
And my own tools for learning Chinese:
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#125tl;dr - Definitely ILR 1+, probably an ILR 2. Pronunciation needs a ton of work, but that's not the only aspect that is measured when analyzing speech. The foreign policy article (linked in another comment) is overly critical, imho.
Detailed:
ILR LEVEL
He's definitely at least an ILR 1+. He shows signs of ILR 2 characteristics (and is probably an ILR 2), but it's hard to tell if he can sustain them in a wide range of contexts. While his pronunciation needs A LOT of work, the language itself is comprehensible to a sympathetic native listener. I strongly disagree with the Foreign Policy article that says it was "terrible". I would say that it's actually kind of amazing given that he's the CEO of a huge company. I would roughly say that he is on par with a good / above average 3rd year student at a school with a really good Chinese program. The original article says 2nd year, but this would be a superstar 2nd year student who was either a heritage speaker or had spent a lot of time in China (e.g., as a homestay or study abroad).
DISCOURSE STRUCTURE AND STYLE
He is able to sustain the dialogue for a long time. He is able to circumlocute decently (this really opens up the ability to communicate), but I would really like to see his range of circumlocution. He is able to string together his sentences in moderately cohesive paragraphs. He does not demonstrate the ability to combine paragraphs cohesively at a high level (signs of an ILR 3), but I don't think the tasks really required it.
His style of answering questions was very American -- very direct. I don't think that a Chinese speaker who has lived exclusively in China (i.e., not educated or trained in the "West") would answer the same questions similarly. In this case, I actually think that it's best for him to answer in an American way even if he could answer in a Chinese style, but that's a different and longer discussion.
Early on when he tells the story of his wife and her grandmother, he really comes across as quite charming.
GRAMMAR
He does decently enough. There are errors, but it's not hard to understand what he is saying -- especially for a sympathetic native listener. The sample didn't really demonstrate a wide range of grammar, but the tasks didn't necessarily require a wide range. He is able to say complex sentences (i.e., two independent clauses), and he is able to speak in different timeframes (normally tenses, but Chinese tenses are not like English). This all points to a solid ILR 2, but grammar is definitely not the toughest part of Mandarin.
VOCABULARY
He has a decent vocabulary -- it's solid for the task. I wonder what his vocabulary is like outside of the topics of personal bio information, Facebook, and Facebook business. If he wants to get to ILR 2+ or ILR 3, he will need to work on the accuracy and diversity of his vocabulary.
PRONUNCIATION
This is easily his weakest point. He has a HEAVY American accent. He mispronounces a lot of words. His tones are WAY off. He seems completely unable to say English loan words in Chinese (e.g., Facebook, Google, etc.). It's actually kind of hard to listen to. That being said, I would say that it is all comprehensible to a sympathetic native listener.
SUMMARY
Overall, really good for someone who is not studying full time and has a very involved full time job. I wonder how much of it was practiced or rehearsed -- a lot of the questions are ones that he definitely _should_ practice (e.g., the story about why he started studying Chinese), since they are standard questions that would be asked to him and/or the Facebook CEO. Regardless, speaking in a foreign language to a large group of people is not easy, and he came across really well.
RECOMMENDATIONS
He can work on his pronunciation in several ways:
- Listen more. Even if it's on in the background, it will help. Right now, I don't think he has a good intuitive sense when he is mispronouncing a word.
- When working with a teacher, do lower level language tasks, and act like a native speaker whose voice/accent he likes. Research suggests that this lowers affective filters for pronunciation.
- Work with suprasegmentals with a pronunciation program that visualize what he's saying. It can be enlightening.
- Practice over pronouncing words. If he does what he perceives as a "caricature" of pronouncing the word, he will probably be closer to accurate.
Other than that, listen more, read more, and I think he will become a rock-solid ILR 2 with room for growth if he wants it.
That's my quick-and-dirty. I am very interested in the informed opinions of others.
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#126Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#127Appraisal of the quality of Zuckerberg's Mandarin: http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/10/22/mark_zuckerbe...
Wow, well that site was designed by a bunch of dicks. If you scroll down too much to read the article it throws a whopping great big nag screen at you insisting that you register (for free) to continue reading. Then, when you close the wretched thing, using the provided X, it just dumps you on to their home page. It's like they thought to themselves 'How can we do a paywall but replace all of the users usual disappoi…
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just instagram. We should not forget to mention Whatsapp, internet via drones and Oculus
Whats App was a huge mistake though. That data is not worth Billions.
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#129Why do we go googoogaga over an English speaker learning a foreign language to a competent level, when this is something millions of people do regularly? Mark isn't the first person to learn a language in the middle of a busy job and life schedule.
Doucheness not quite over - it's a big achievement, yeah, but Chinese isn't actually that hard, it's a bit of a myth perpetuated because (a) there's not enough people learning it (b) a lot of teachers are quite shit in my experience (c) hand writing is difficult. in reality spoken Chinese is very simple, grammar is easy, common vocabulary is easily learnt and repeated frequently....
Re: Mark Zuckerberg Answers Q&A in Mandarin at Chinese University
#130A review of his Mandarin based on a close listen of the first 5 minutes of the video and listening to the rest in the background while I type this (let me know if it changes later): tl;dr - Definitely ILR 1+, probably an ILR 2. Pronunciation needs a ton of work, but that's not the only aspect that is measured when analyzing speech. The foreign policy article (linked in another comment) is overly critical, imho. Detai…
But, his pronunciation is not good and the flow of his speech is a bit too slow and stuttery in order for this to be interesting to listen to. He's made a lot of headway in the sense that he can piece together sentences that communicate what he wants to say, but I just didn't find it engaging enough to keep on listening. I think he's doing himself a disservice by speaking Mandarin, even though the audience finds it impressive. Educated Chinese usually like practicing their English. Either way -- bravo Mark. You're raising the bar.