Earlier quoted context omitted.
You cannot moderate mailing lists because they are not centralized. When you hit "reply all" in a mailing list, the replies go directly to everyone who is on the To: or Cc: list. The list robot is just one of those parties. And of course, private replies are possible that the list robot doesn't even see. Some lists try to fix this by abusing Reply-to: to try to steer discussion replies to the list address, but that i…
What's wrong with changing Reply-To?
"Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
121–130 of 487 posts
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#122He's just the new Drepper. Coming from almost anyone else this might be reasonable, but him? Just pointing out someone else is an asshole does not negate you being an asshole. Honestly, it's people like him and the systemd noise on all sides that have made me lose faith in Linux. By contrast Linus has git too, which is potentially as big a contribution as Linux was in the first place. History may even demonstrate git…
I disagree with Linux failing as a potential platform for end user deployment. We might even seen SteamOS take off.
2015 will be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#123I'm not sure how this pertains to Open Source communities across the board..? Seems to be a pretty targeted indictment of the Linux dev community. There are plenty that don't stand for the type of bad acting described here.
The problem is that the Linux kernel is one of the longer running and most influential open source communities so too many people have picked up the idea that because Linus can say something mean, it's okay for them to do it, too — as long as they're technically correct, of course, but which flame-warrior doesn't believe that they're correcting an error?
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#124This coming from the man who, when people point out flaws in his design of systemd, says basically "too bad, I'm doing it anyway, and if you don't like it, you can take a hike."
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#125Yeah, this was discussed about an hour ago, and it hit the flame filter pretty fast. I'd suggest that it won't last very long on the front page. Incidentally, I find it very sad that we can't discuss this on HN. What has happened to Lennart, and the behaviour of Linus Torvalds as a bully, is probably something decent to talk about. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8414859
You need to understand one thing: you are wrong. Linus Torvalds is not a bully. He's in charge of one of the biggest and most successful project out there. And this project is open-source, and anyone can contribute to it. Anyone. Even your cat. Imagine the Windows codebase being opened to anyone, with anyone being able to suggest fixes and send patches, or ask questions, or make suggestions. You do not want any idiot…
I don't understand this perspective. One can be a very effective guardian of quality without being an asshole about it.
For example, this is what Linus wrote:
"Of course, I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it was a good idea to read things ONE FCKING BYTE AT A TIME with system calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the fck does idiotic things like that? How did they noty die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?
Linus"
"It is a very bad idea to read one byte at a time with a system call, for a variety of reasons, including and especially performance."
I would love to hear how being an abusive asshole actually does any good? I see it as a way to artificially limit the size and diversity of the potential contributor pool.
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#126This doesn't pertain to " Open Source " in general, the same argument can be said about companies and closed-source products, which can be just as well run by jerks. I have a couple of small projects published on GitHub and the people that interacted with me have been very professional and thankful for my work. I am also a part of big open-source communities which are very professional and asshole behavior is definit…
I think if you're involved in a closed-source company and you act like an ass too many times you'll get fired.
Or you get promoted. It depends greatly on company culture.
What I've tended to see in companies, though, is that instead of venting like this and getting it over with, there is backstabbing, intrigue, and much worse insults veiled in language that provide deniability.
Personally, I'd prefer being on the receiving end of Linus' approach to most of the "nicer" hostility I've seen in corporate settings.
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#127Systemd and PulseAudio are getting pushed down everybody's throat, unasked for. They are both horrible to work with and suck quite a bit, both introduced way prematurely and buggy. Why did he not roll his own distro fully based on systemd to convince people it is so cool? instead of rolling out his own distro, people responsible for distro package/rolling were convinced it should be added to the default; as it was so…
I fail to see how the tools Pottering works on have any relevance to the discussion.
Are you claiming that personal attacks are justified if you don't like a person's software?
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#128I agree somewhat with Lennart. The Libre/OSS community is full of egotistical asshats -- generally western and in their 30s and 40s. What's funny, though, is that not all camps in the community are that bad. The Linux camp has deteriorated in recent years -- I've noticed it myself on several occasions. The BSD camps don't suffer near as much from the nonsense that occurs on the Linux side. I think there are several r…
You tried to open a flame war over licenses in discussion about hostile attitude in the open source community. Great work.
"The GPL license is arguably better IMO as well. Quite a few BSD devs, both kernel and userland, are grossly immature and tend to be vocal copy-left opponents for the sake of being vocal."
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#129This reminded me of the "This is Phil Fish: A case study in internet celebrity" video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w
Phil Fish is an indie game developer, internet-famous for the game Fez. And "everybody" hates him. Though as the video explains, it's more complicated than that.
The video is notably also as being referenced by Notch (creator of Minecraft) as part of the reason why he decided to go into semi-retirement after the sale of Mojang.
Re: "Open Source is awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this"
#130For whatever reason, programmers and hackers as a group are disproportionately socially inept compared to the general population. This manifests itself in nasty behavior towards women (underrepresented in our field and generally being more balanced personality-wise then men) and towards each other. In the real world and in the workplace this can be filtered out and mitigated to some degree. Online, in a domain where…
> fall somewhere on the aspergers scale
That's really insulting to people that actually have autism. Don't do that.
(And you mean autism scale, asperger's was eliminated as a separate diagnosis.)