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The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

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Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#121

Post by joesmo »

stevemck wrote: post #51

Guns scare the shit out of me. When I grew up in Australia where there is basically no guns. I used to walk on streets even on a drunken Friday / Saturday night without fear. I moved to the US a few years ago and since then every corner I turn, I see people and I worry. I don't worry about getting robbed. No. I worry about a gun fight somewhere and a stray bullet hits me. I worry that someone drunk might hold me at g…

I don't see why your fear differentiates between guns with and without serial numbers. Either way, you're dead if you get shot with one. Then again, fear is irrational.

Take a look at a state like New Jersey. Guns are illegal there for all intents and purposes. Does nothing to keep cities like Camden off the most dangerous cities in America list though.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#122

Post by na85 »

hga wrote: post #104
na85 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply This already exists. Ubiquitous air presence via unmanned drones armed with air-to-ground rockets, missiles, or guided bombs. Sometimes I feel like libertarians and NRA types seriously believe that they (a bunch of angry right-wing hunters or whatever) could actually throw off what they feel are…

You're assuming we'd play by some set of rules that would allow these drones to make enough of a difference.

You're kidding, right?

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#123

Post by diydsp »

hga wrote: post #97
diydsp wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, i forgot to mention the numerous modifications which can make an AR-15 automatic. It's true this device alone doesn't make an automatic weapon, but it certainly catalyzes the process of making an untraceable automatic weapon. Once you have made an untraceable semi-auto AR-15 with this device, you can then make it untraceable auto with numerous ways.

It turns out the BATF has a metric in terms of tools, skill and time needed to turn a semi-auto gun into full auto, and has banned ones that fall below that threshold, like MAC-10 and -11 clones with fixed firing pins in the bolt face. And, no, it doesn't catalyze this, or at least no more than allowing the sale of millions of finished AR-15s. Those are a lot closer than a 80% receiver and a pile of parts, "Some asse…

> the sale of millions of finished AR-15s

ITYM millions of traceable AR-15s.

If someone wants an untraceable machine gun, they can buy this device and perform mods.

∴ This device catalyzes making untraceable machine guns.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#124

Post by mmcwilliams »

hga wrote: post #116
mmcwilliams wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, though. There were armed security personnel on site[1] at the Columbine shooting that actually had a shootout with the duo. There were guns on campus, unfortunately they did not stop the massacre. [1] http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES...

Per that item, and memory, those guys were outside the campus when it started, and only one was armed. And I think you're missing the point. Absent a total ban on citizens of good standing possessing guns inside (including administrators in this case, or, say an arms locker in the teacher's lounge), the duo wouldn't have had free reign as the police cowered outside (experience shows teachers and administrators are a…

No, I actually get the point I just completely disagree with it. The repeated suggestion that guns will make people safer just isn't demonstrated by reality. Not to keep trading anecdotes but here is the case of the Police/Walmart shooting in Las Vegas[1]. Joseph Wilcox was armed, intervened with the thought that his gun would neutralize the situation and wound up becoming another victim. This is your principle put into practice.

Gun advocates pushing the line "school shootings wouldn't happen if there were armed people on campus" sounds suspiciously similar to the joke about selling elephant repellent. Keep in mind, I'm providing you with examples of things that actually happened while your view of gun-provided safety exists in the hypothetical. I am happy living in an area where gun ownership is scarce and shootings (especially accidental) are scarcer.

[1]http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/jun/22/joseph-wilcox-be...

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#125

Post by ctdonath »

barrkel wrote: post #113
ctdonath wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A casual glance at the deplorable accidental and unintentional discharge rates in the US statistics should make it immediately clear that ...there isn't a substantial problem therewith. Not zero, of course, but by your line of reasoning cars should be outlawed immediately because of the actual accidental & unintentional harm rates therewith ... and the same issue with guns being orders of magnitude less. The problem…

by your line of reasoning cars should be outlawed immediately Cars have lots of valuable uses. The valuable uses of guns are a lot fewer.

Preserving innocent life against those who would take or subjugate it is very valuable.

Per the rhetoric I regularly encounter, the value of cars should be irrelevant to the discussion due to the loss of life thereto.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#126

Post by MrMember »

philh wrote: post #120
tjradcliffe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment implies that there are two classes of people, "gun owners who understand firearms" and "non-gun owners who do not understand firearms". A casual glance at the deplorable accidental and unintentional discharge rates in the US statistics should make it immediately clear that gun ownership and understanding firearms have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I say this as a non-gun-owner who was taught…

> Let me say this again: the problem of personal safety has been solved better (people are safer) in every other developed nation without ubiquitous firearms. Don't these countries have lower murder rates than the US has non-gun-related murder rates? As in, even if you removed every gun in the US, and even if all the crimes that would otherwise be committed with guns now just don't happen, the US still would have a h…

At first glance that seems to be the case for some countries. In 2011 the US had a homicide rate of 4.7 per 100k, with a firearm homicide rate of 3.6 per 100k. The United Kingdom had a homicide rate of 1.0 per 100k in 2011.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#127

Post by RyJones »

molecules wrote: post #92
RyJones wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what a purchase permit is. In Washington, Oregon, and Idaho guns are cash and carry.

Michigan use to require a purchase permit for pistols. You had to go to the Michigan State Police, take a little quiz, and they would issue you a purchase permit. The permit had an expiration date. You bought the pistol with the permit and then had to take the pistol back to the police station for a safety check.

I'm glad I haven't lived with these shenanigans.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#128

Post by dreamweapon »

hga wrote: post #108
dreamweapon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your point is?

The start of this sub-thread is rgrieselhuber saying " This is why gun owners get nervous when people who don't understand firearms try to legislate their ownership. "

Citing a single anecdote doesn't do much to support the insinuation that those who support firearm regulation (in general) lack a basic understanding of the issues. It doesn't make any kind of a point at all, really.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#129

Post by beachstartup »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #3

> ill your own lower receiver at home, however, and you can order the rest of the parts from online gun shops, creating a semi-automatic weapon with no serial number, obtained with no background check, no waiting period Besides the 6 months it takes to learn to make one that won't blow up in your face when you pull the trigger? Alarmist drivel.

it doesn't take 6 months of gunsmithing experience to put together an ar-15 from parts, it takes about an hour for a complete novice. it's not difficult or dangerous. it's just not. especially with youtube.

before i owned one, i had the notion that it was dangerous. but it's a real-world (i.e. you literally bet your life on it) modular weapons system - you don't make the modules (barrel, etc.), you just snap or screw them together. the gun was designed to be taken apart and reassembled in the field by people without a high school education, much less any kind of gunsmithing ability.

i know it sounds hard to believe when you don't know anything about it (i was the same way), but it's true. when you start researching, it's incredibly confusing for about 20 minutes but then it just clicks in your head. it's a very basic weapon.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#130

Post by seanflyon »

diydsp wrote: post #123
hga wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out the BATF has a metric in terms of tools, skill and time needed to turn a semi-auto gun into full auto, and has banned ones that fall below that threshold, like MAC-10 and -11 clones with fixed firing pins in the bolt face. And, no, it doesn't catalyze this, or at least no more than allowing the sale of millions of finished AR-15s. Those are a lot closer than a 80% receiver and a pile of parts, "Some asse…

> the sale of millions of finished AR-15s ITYM millions of traceable AR-15s. If someone wants an untraceable machine gun, they can buy this device and perform mods. ∴ This device catalyzes making untraceable machine guns.

What makes those guns traceable? The fact that they have a serial number on them (which can easily be filed off)?
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