Live data from Hacker News

What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?

danwang.co

121–122 of 122 posts

Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have no issue with their own investments in the fund being taxed as long term capital provided they have held the investment for a year when the profit is taken. Here's a simple way to think about it - an ordinary RIA invests money on behalf of their clients. The fees they get for that service are taxed as ordinary income. Why should carried interest be any different when the money is coming from clients? And why…

Because the fees charged by the mutual fund guys are fixed - it's a straight percentage of assets. Just like the fees charged by hedge funds which are taxed as ordinary income. To take it a step further, should entrepreneurs pay ordinary income tax on their gains when they sell their company if they didn't invest any of their own money? It's the same thing. Carried interest is just a fancy name for sweat equity.

"Because the fees charged by the mutual fund guys are fixed - it's a straight percentage of assets. Just like the fees charged by hedge funds which are taxed as ordinary income."

Taxable methodology isn't generally determined by the way you earn your income. The concept of long term capital gains was created to reward investors (those who invest their own capital) who hold capital in a given investment vehicle for over a year, not for whether or not they are taking on risk, or whether they are paid out based on a fixed fee or fixed percentage of profit. We don't tax waiters at a different rate for the money they get on tips (sweat equity) vs. their base salary.

Fees charged by private equity are also fixed - they are a fixed percentage of profit. So again, I don't see why this is any different. We have an investment vehicle taking in money, making investment decisions on the behalf of their investors and then making a percentage of the profits - all normal activities - nothing that warrants special tax treatment.

Comparing selling your company to carried interest isn't appropriate - apples and oranges - but to your entrepreneurs example: if they accept investment in their company, then their company has shares. Gains on those shares are treated exactly the same as any other share in any company - short term gains on stock held less than a year or long term if you've held it a year or longer. This is why many people exercise their options in a startup as a way to start that clock as soon as possible to avoid short-term tax consequences.

Again - PE firms are offering a service and will receive a good profit for their hard work. But that work often involves minimal capital on their part and therefore should not be treated as if it is their capital at risk.

Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?

#122
post #106
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was almost entirely caused by an institution known as the BANK. Banks and hedge funds are totally different things. Likening one to the other is like saying Google and Square are both evil just because they're technology companies. You seem to lack a fundamental understanding of the financial system.

Oh really? So in your dictionary AIG is a bank, like say BoA. You seem like having a deep understanding of the financial system . Don't forget to edit the wikipedia page, these guys got it all wrong[2] oh yes the WSJ[1] too! [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123734123180365061 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_International_Group#Li...

There were many types of institutions involved in the 2008 crash, from traditional banks to investment banks to ratings agencies to insurance firms to mortgage brokers to governmental bodies and more.

The root cause of the crash was unquestionably the banks. It was the banks that lowered their standards, made bad loans, and packaged them up into MBSs and CLOs to ship them off to other institutions to trade and insure so they could make more bad loans.

If the banks didn't make these loans, AIG would have had nothing to insure. Goldman would have nothing to trade. S&P would have nothing to rate. Et cetera.

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying as vindicating everyone else. They all royally messed up too. It's just that the banks started and perpetuated it all.

Post reply on HN