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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#121

Post by true_religion »

jrockway wrote: post #90
keepper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

I pay taxes on wars, but would be happy to not have the war if I didn't have to pay those taxes. Sadly, that's not how taxes work. Each tax isn't "for" something, they all go to into the budget and are used to buy stuff. Toll roads might be a fair example. Those are mostly closed to bicycles.

Often gas taxes/vehicle property tax is tagged by the state to be dedicated solely towards road development and upkeep. If there's ever a shortfall, they stop maintaining lesser used roads because the rest of the budget has already been decided.

This is despite the fact that it takes more than gas + property tax to fund the highway system.

Thinking about that... I get your point, non-drivers are funding the roadway system as much as drivers are.

I think its the way that gas taxes for instance are leveraged in the decision making process that makes people think that it makes the lion share of the contribution. When the proceeeds from gas tax falls, lawmakers think less people are driving thus less maintenance is needed.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#122

Post by fidlefodl »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #103
fidlefodl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you…

Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. But all the things you've said are equally true about pedestrians, which is a more dangerous, per-mile-travelled, mode of transportation than biking. And bike lanes in NY make pedestrians safer, too. As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon respon…

> Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist.

Of course i am. Not sure what made anyone think i'm not in favor of it.

Guess opinions are bad-form around this place :P

> As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most responsibility to prevent it. The biggest problem with vehicles in the US is that you're "entitled" to drive without learning how dangerous you are to everyone around you, and how to navigate that danger safely.

You seem to think my post was entitled, it's not. It's my opinion that i don't like them. I also do not like pedestrians jaywalking, but that doesn't mean i'm entitled. I would prefer to reduce risk by means that this article lays out.

I don't like things that increase risk. Bikers in my lane, infront of my "two-thousand-pound weapon" simply increase risk. It's like gun safety. I don't put my finger on the trigger until i'm ready to fire.

You (and i assume the downvoters?) seem to think that just because i express my opinion, that i would attempt to ban bikers from the roads completely. Far from it.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#124

Post by 7952 »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

Most of the world is far less car centric than the US. People go outside on foot or bikes instead of traveling everywhere in cars. Cycle paths are a way to make room for cars in busy cities that would be much more pleasant without them. It should be possible for anyone to go outside without fearing for their lives or waiting for ages to cross the road. That is just good design.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#125

Post by sedachv »

bane wrote: post #67
soperj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled…

The first paved roads in the United States were built as a result of years of lobbying by the League of American Wheelmen, a national bicycle club: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement

The idea that roads were not for pedestrian use was a public relations campaign by automobile industry lobbyists: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/04/invention-jaywalking/...

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#126

Post by 7952 »

bane wrote: post #112
fidlefodl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you…

Right. I don't get it. Bikers put themselves out in purposely dangerous environments and then are mystified and upset when they get hurt and angry at the environment they chose to ride in. I have absolutely zero patience for that kind of idiotic selfishness. If somebody wants to ride a bike and wants to lobby for better bike riding infrastructure, I will be right there with them, even if it raises my taxes.

Its much more fun than driving. You can go as fast as you want and you don't have to wait in traffic jams.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#127

Post by seanflyon »

turar wrote: post #78
dllthomas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you located? In Oakland, I certainly see some bicyclists break the rules, but I probably see more abiding by them. (And I see cars and pedestrians break rules, as well...)

Edmonton, Alberta. I live in a central/downtown location, where most streets are quiet 2-lanes. And like I said, I have never seen a cyclist actually stop at a stop sign. Most don't even slow down -- just a quick check to make sure they're not going to get killed, and blow right past.

In many cities it is perfectly legal for bicycles to treat stop signs as yield signs. I have no idea if this is the case in Edmonton, Alberta.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#128

Post by mikestew »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #27
derekp7 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm OK with the occasional cyclist. It is when there is a group of 30 from a club riding in a pack, going 15 MPH, on a 45 MPH highway with not a lot of passing areas that get irritating. The other thing that I don't like is having to pass the same cyclist several times in traffic. They pass you on the right when traffic is stoped, but don't move over so you can pass them on the left when traffic starts to move again.

Im sure its annoying, but its that way for a reason. You are belted into a multi-thousand-pound steel-reinforced vehicle. They are riding on some pipes with a Styrofoam block strapped to their head. I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. When traffic is moving after…

> I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light.

It's legal in exactly one state: California. I think it's a wink and a nod for bicycles (or maybe it is legal for pedal bikes, I just don't care enough to look), but it is most definitely illegal outside of CA for motorcycles. One lane == one vehicle. I can even dig out the relevant section of the Revised Code of Washington, 'cause it sure would be sweet to lane split in WA but the RCW says "no".

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#129

Post by bane »

brnstz wrote: post #86
bane wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled…

Most roads in the world were not originally built for cars: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/04/invention-jaywalking/...

Good thing I don't live in those places then. But I do live in a place where the roads were built for cars. And separate travel passages were built for bikes. Yet bikes are all over the roads. Can I take my car on the bike trails?

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#130

Post by mjmahone17 »

SippinLean wrote: post #17
misiti3780 wrote: post #2

They need to put up the concrete barriers on every lane. Biking on an ave A + ave B is still not safe.

An unfortunate side-effect of the protected-lane type bike lanes is that pedestrians feel much safer there too. They are right next to the sidewalks, and as sidewalks become overcrowded and overflow (very common in NYC) the bike lane turns into a sidewalk extension. The result is a very dangerous mix of walkers, joggers, luggage carriers, hotdog cart pushers, strollers, and everything else crowding the bike lane, and…

Still, much less dangerous than pedestrians overflowing onto car lanes. I've hit a pedestrian who stepped in front of me (I was 2 feet behind him when he stepped out), but I'm not going to kill someone when it happens. We might get hurt, there could even be blood, but unless the person is very fragile, there's next to no chance of a fatality.

Also, as bicyclists fill the bike lanes, pedestrians (at least, non-tourists. Avoid Times Square!) learn not to blindly step into the bike lane. It's a learning process, but I have noticed even throughout the last year, with CitiBikes adding to the bike traffic, that walkers seem a bit more wary of jumping through the bike lane.

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