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Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

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Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#121
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't just paying more. I'm aware of how tax-heavy europe is, and how much harder it is to support the wide variety of languages and laws. In most cases, I would be fine paying a bit more for a service. The problem is the way the mark-up happens. They're not calculating the difference and marking that up, they're literally just equating US dollars with euros. $99 and €99 might sound similar, but the diffe…

No way? Sales tax in Denmark alone is 25% and then we haven't even begun talking about additional cost of running your business here.

those are valid points, but then why don't they calculate the price they should be asking and ask that? As it stands, they don't give the impression that they do that, they seem to try to screw us over. Hell, if they had gone for €97 instead of €99, a lot less people would be complaining, because it wouldn't look like an arbitrary price hike but a calculated price.

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#122
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't just paying more. I'm aware of how tax-heavy europe is, and how much harder it is to support the wide variety of languages and laws. In most cases, I would be fine paying a bit more for a service. The problem is the way the mark-up happens. They're not calculating the difference and marking that up, they're literally just equating US dollars with euros. $99 and €99 might sound similar, but the diffe…

Who is to say they didn't do a "proper calculation" and result in something close enough to €99 that they just rounded up/down to keep things consistent?

That's ofcourse possible, but there are many many services that pull this trick, and I would be surprised if dropbox was the only one that did the honorable thing here. And even if that's what they're doing, they should realize it gives a very bad impression and maybe round up/down to a different price. Literally anything else would be better.

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#123
post #97

It’s funny this is mentioned because just today I found out that the conversion rates at Asos.com from pound to euro are off by 12%. They calculate the conversion dividing by 0.70 instead of 0.79. So basically everyone buying products with prices based in euro is been ripped-off.

But there are no official exchange rates are there? So how can they be wrong? You must mean they're not as favourable as that which other companies are offering. In which case it's not a 'rip-off', it's just as good as deal as you might like it to be.

Sure there are. Here's ECB's for example. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/inde...

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#124
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot, that all US prices are missing the sales tax. So, you are comparing US prices without tax with your countries price including tax.

In the US it is not common to show a price after sales tax, like it is in Europe with VAT. Also, not all states have the same amount of sales tax and some have no tax at all. It would be impossible to show the prices with sales tax when there are 50 different states with differing sales tax laws.

> It would be impossible to show the prices with sales tax when there are 50 different states with differing sales tax laws

Heck, the state level sales tax rates are even the easy part. Within states there are counties which often levy additional sales tax, and then cities within the counties do it as well. These county and municipal tax rates are additionally often comprised of a variety of "temporary assessments" which appear and expire seemingly at random. Knowing which rate is charged at a given location devolves into a very difficult problem once you realize there's no centralized address-to-jurisdiction database, nor a centralized jurisdiction-to-tax-rate database.

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My buddy that sold books online had to calculate our own state's sales tax (by county and city! yuck) because he has to report here. But if you were out of state he didn't charge the sales tax. Its a broken system, very weird.

Individual states can't tax interstate commerce, that's the job of the feds. Actually, they can if they have a presence in both states - they can only tax a business that has a physical presence in that state. It isn't broken, it is part of the [inferred] Constitution. The idea is to not place burdens on interstate commerce. Without it the states would be free to give their state preference in commerce - to tax comme…

Sure that part is right. Its the part where he had to spend Saturday calculating tax rates for every in-state purchase depending on address. That's broken; it's part of why he gave up the business.

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#126
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are no official exchange rates are there? So how can they be wrong? You must mean they're not as favourable as that which other companies are offering. In which case it's not a 'rip-off', it's just as good as deal as you might like it to be.

Sure there are. Here's ECB's for example. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/inde...

That's just an observation of the exchange rate as it appears to be between large banks. Nobody is required to offer it to you.

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#127
post #38

If you are in Europe I recommend hubiC instead of Dropbox. They are much cheaper and have servers in Europe (France - they are child company of OVH). Dropbox only has servers in America [1], so its slower. - 25GB free - 100GB 1€/m - 10TB 10€/m Yes you read that right, its TEN TIMES the space of Dropbox Pro, for the same price. Im not affiliated or anything, just a satisfied customer. [1] - https://www.dropbox.com/hel…

> Yes you read that right, its TEN TIMES the space of Dropbox Pro, for the same price. Yeah, but what I want from a cloud store is convenience and long term prospects. 1) Do they have deep integration with iOS/Android apps the way Dropbox has? 2) Will they be around in 5 years?

1/ good enough yes

2/ theyre part of the biggest european hosting company which has been around for 15 years so yes

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#128
post #38

If you are in Europe I recommend hubiC instead of Dropbox. They are much cheaper and have servers in Europe (France - they are child company of OVH). Dropbox only has servers in America [1], so its slower. - 25GB free - 100GB 1€/m - 10TB 10€/m Yes you read that right, its TEN TIMES the space of Dropbox Pro, for the same price. Im not affiliated or anything, just a satisfied customer. [1] - https://www.dropbox.com/hel…

I considered hubiC, but all download syncs (from the website and application) for now are limited to 10mbit (even from the UK). There are several posts complaining about this on hubiC's forums. If you don't care about this, it's a really great deal, but to me it is a deal breaker.

i think i agree, but then again ive been uploading my 80gb of backups for a while now

there is also the fact that this may be faster than dropbox anyways due to hubix being hosted in europe

i imagine there was also high demand for this from the start so limits made sense, but they should start removing them

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole area of VAT in the EU, for companies like Dropbox, changes on January 1, 2015. Dropbox will not be able to state that they don't pay VAT in the EU after this date as the rules will have changed. They will have to start paying VAT based on where their customer is located in the EU, e.g. German Dropbox customers will have to pay German VAT (19%). Hungarian Dropbox customers, meanwhile, will have to pay Hungar…

How will that work for the companies? Will each company have to register and remit payment to every country in the EU that they have customers for?

I'm interested in how this would work. Where would the VAT go in the case of a German person who primarily lives and works in the UK? Is it based on their IP address at the time of signing up? Or where their banking address is registered?

EDIT - Just found this, which suggests it's up to the company themselves to decide in which country the service is being 'consumed', and they need to store evidence which shows how they make that decision. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/one-stop-shop.pdf

Re: Weird pricing of Dropbox Pro

#130
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they don't hand your data over to the US government.

That's too pat a response: - You don't know that Dropbox does. - You don't know that hubiC doesn't turn data over to their government or whether it's shared with allies. - You don't know whether either of them have bugs which can be exploited by a MITM – or will in a coming update… Government spying requires political changes to establish a culture of oversight and accountability. You're fooling yourself if you think…

>You don't know that Dropbox does.

They've certainly given me no reason to think they don't, and enough circumstantial evidence to believe they probably do. We know for a fact they are targeted by the NSA, because they were specifically mentioned in the PRISM documents as the probable next target for cooperation with that program. So they're on the NSA's radar, and everyone knows it, and they know everyone knows it. In spite of this, a few months later, they bring onto their board Condoleezza Rice, a woman who, while she was in the Bush administration, went to bat for their warrantless wiretapping program a dozen times. She hasn't recanted - she's still a huge fan.

This is pretty much the exact opposite of what you would do to address privacy concerns with your company.

And in the whole time, they've addressed none of this. They spam HN with their stupid blog posts, and when somebody brings up the privacy issues, the poster gets downvoted, and Dropbox goes silent until their next blog post about whatever wonderful technology they've developed to make it easier for the US government to snoop on your data. At the very least, they clearly aren't very concerned about their image with respect to customer privacy, and they don't care if you know it.

It's not like providing a service like Dropbox and providing provable security isn't a solved problem. And they don't do it. Yet they are the biggest player in this market. My, a clean site design and engineering blog really do go a long way.

Anyway, this isn't a court of law. I'm not a judge or a jury and I'm not in a position to put anyone in jail. Requiring that level of proof to decide not to do business with someone, or whether to associate with them professionally, is not reasonable. They have not been forthright about privacy issues over the past year, they have acted in a way that shows they don't regard the legitimate privacy concerns of their users at all, and they have put someone on their board who stands in direct opposition to all that, anyway. That's more than enough.

There was a lot of big talk last year around here about how people who work at the NSA ought to be ashamed, about how "the community" needs to ostracize these people. Soul searching about what kind of person you would have to be to create those kinds of systems, what delusions you would have to buy into, etc etc. Yet that's exactly what has happened at Dropbox - exactly those kinds of people are working there right now - and every week they post some bullshit from their blog and every week this board lines up to congratulate them. You're all a bunch of hypocrites.

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