121–130 of 141 posts
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It's common sense between many cultures and philosophies that sex drains energy, at least for males.
It's "common sense" in many cultures that the opposite is true. More importantly, the positive benefits of regular sex have been made evident by virtually every study ever done on the matter.
Fantastic Article. Three weeks ago I hit absolute rock bottom with exhaustion from working hard for the last 2 years (I worked out I've been working 70-80 hour weeks since Dev 2010 with 8 days off in 4 years). I resolved to get my life sorted out, I cut back work hours drastically, started riding my bike more and went to the Doctors to get help with sleeping tablets and pain management (the last 3 months I've been wa…
Could I contact you somewhere to discuss the positive changes you are making in your life? I don't want to take away time from your busy schedule but I've been dealing with similar problems for the past couple years and I'd like to discuss strategies for moving past this darkness. This line in particular really spoke to me as it's about all I can manage at the moment (hoping for change rather than actively pursuing c…
I'm notoriously bad at answering emails but I check that one more than most :).
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I'll let you into a secret: four hours of concentrated, high-quality thinking a day is about the limit of what the rest of us can do as well. I don't know whether that's a human universal, but if there are exceptions, they are exceptional indeed. A programmer working eight hours a day is at best doing four hours of high-quality concentrated work and four hours of random crap like attending meetings, checking e-mail a…
I've been noticing this type of thinking a lot on HN. It simply isn't true. I am not in the tech industry (if you search my comment history you'll find I do underground tunneling) but everybody I have interacted with at my firm that is above the junior level (and the majority of those at the junior level) puts in far more than 4 hours of concentrated, high-quality thinking a day. Out of the normal 45 to 60 hours I wo…
On the other hand, I think people who say that they are only able to get through 4 hours of work in a day, really specifically mean programming. And it's probably true in that limited sense, but all the other stuff - communicating with others so you know what program to write, helping others so they can work more effectively, is actually very valuable. It's just a common programmer failing to not really see that stuff as 'real work'. It's even worse as programmers get promotions and are expected to spend a significant amount of their time on management type activities.
Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.
I'm also coming from outside the bubble. From a different viewpoint, though, programmers aren't so bad about this. Try hanging out with some medical doctors and nurses, instead. I might think my 60 hour weeks are bad, but i just can't complain about it to my wife when she gets home from her 80 hour weeks. Burnout is a completely accepted part of nursing, and many nurses take it into account in career planning. Not sa…
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I program because I love it. It's my hobby. I quit my job a 14 months ago. 5 months ago I thought of an idea I wanted to pursue. I've been spending 8-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week on it since then. I'm sorry you apparently picked a career you don't get real enjoyment from. Those of us that picked something we love don't see doing it a lot as a negative. We see it as just that, doing something we love.
Oh to be young again...
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You're getting voted down by people who assume that your experience can't possibly be real because it isn't their experience, but I feel the same as you. There are dozens of us!
I submit, as argued in my other comment, that greggman is the one assuming his/her experience should take priority. If you are able to work years on end at 70 hours a week then more power to you. But that doesn't mean other people who do burn out are to blame or inferior b/c they didn't follow in greggman's footsteps or didn't choose "a career you don't get real enjoyment from". Moreover, seriously consider this: Is…
My response is to that.
My response is even in line with the article this is linked about. That message paraphrased is "If you like what you're doing you won't get burnt out. If you're getting burnt out you're probably doing stuff you don't like doing."
I know plenty of other people in my camp. People with 2 or 3 kids that some how manage to find time to code and learn new tech after work because they just love it. As concrete examples, one of them is designing 3D software to generate STL files for 3D parts so he can design toys for his kids. Another just got both an Amazon Fire and has already created one tiny app on it and now just got his Oculus Rift 2 and is playing with it. How he finds the time with three kids I have no idea but he posts is progress regularly on his FB.
If you don't want to work a lot I have no issues with that. What I have issue with is people calling me "..crazy" for doing something I enjoy. If you don't enjoy it fine. Do something else. If I enjoy it let me enjoy it!
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I'm in the bubble and you are absolutely dead on. My secret to avoiding burnout was to do contracting for four years. After this, and after going back to full-time work, I realized (at more than an intellectual level) for the first time that the more you work the less you make. Completely eye-opening. Respect the 9-to-5 workday and good things will happen.
Curious how contracting helped you realize this. Did you work more or less hours while contracting? How did contract work help you avoid burnout?
When working on a day rate, you also have more power to say "My day is over, screw you." if they ask for more than their share.
Contracting is pretty sweet. The freedom gives you a lot of power.
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There is another view. Programmers commonly have two characteristics that make them talk a lot about burnout: a) They are analytical people. It comes with the job. You can't program if you don't think analytically, and this characteristic can't possibly be confined to work activities, so it gets ingrained into personality. b) They like what they do. Naturally, this is not true for every individual, but is true for mo…
The burnout problem is not just talk. When I hear people on HN brag that they regularly work through dinner, thats evidence that high burnout rates are real. And programmer's personality traits are not solely to blame. It's the whole culture of tech, and tech companies. It's Google and Microsoft building these campuses with every amenity you'll ever need (so you never have to leave). It's VCs looking for young 20 som…
Even though I work a relaxed 36 hour work week and rarely do anything work-related outside office hours I still encountered many of the issues related to burnout. I've wondered why for quite some time and this article pretty much nails where these feelings where coming from.
Fun fact: Even the process of interviewing at other companies seemed to help. Looking back, I think it's because most interview processes contain tests that required me to spend a few hours solving (complex) problems with code.
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I'm not missing the point of the article. I'm disregarding it. When you're working so hard that you burn out, we shouldn't be discussing how to mitigate the effects. Just stop working. This author tries to pretend the cause of burnout is not too much work, but too much "unfufilling" work. As if working from morning till midnight is perfectly fine, as long as you convince yourself the code you write in this half-aslee…
Hours worked doesn't always contribute to burnout. I can easily feel burnout working 40 hour weeks filled with unsatisfying work (e.g. bureaucratic paperwork, interruptions for unimportant issues, unchallenging problems, etc). Conversely, if I am actually able to code and develop an application that is semi-interesting, I could easily go past 40 hours a week and not feel any burnout because it is fulfilling and/or en…
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I submit, as argued in my other comment, that greggman is the one assuming his/her experience should take priority. If you are able to work years on end at 70 hours a week then more power to you. But that doesn't mean other people who do burn out are to blame or inferior b/c they didn't follow in greggman's footsteps or didn't choose "a career you don't get real enjoyment from". Moreover, seriously consider this: Is…
You're reading a lot into my reply. I'm replying to the parent to my comment which was arguably judgemental in saying "y'all look crazy" and "spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd" and "Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul" My response is to that. My response is even in line with the article this is linked about. That message paraphrased is "If you like what you're doing you won't get bu…
"How he finds the time with three kids I have no idea but he posts is progress regularly on his FB."
Maybe he doesn't find the time.