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New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

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Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#121

Post by astrodust »

e40 wrote: post #94
cmelbye wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity? My grandma doesn't want to buy an "external display", she would truly have no idea where to even start to do that. And then after she's got the Mac mini, the external display, and the cable to connect the display (assuming she was able to find the right one,) someone then has to set it up for her. Compare that to an iMac. Go to the Apple store, drop $1k, take it home, plug in the power cable, and she's on…

Let's be honest here, your grandma won't buy anything without help from someone. The leap from the iMac to a monitor+mini is not very far, with the help that will certainly be given.

You can book an appointment at the Genius Bar and they'll run you through how to set it up. I'm sure even the proverbial grandmother would feel confident enough to set up an iMac after that. Maybe not a Mini, though.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#122

Post by astrodust »

chc wrote: post #114
dublinben wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate a little on why you're looking for an AiO computer? I've always seen them as overpriced, underpowered computers for people who don't really want a computer. I don't know why anyone on HN would be in the market for one.

They're very space-efficient and don't create a mess of cords. "Underpowered" is relative to need, and a lot of people don't need all the power in a modern computer.

That modest i5 chip is more than enough for your basic needs.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#123

Post by Morgawr »

danford wrote: post #13

>1.4 GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor with Turbo Boost Speeds up to 2.7 GHz, Intel HD 5000 graphics, 8GB of memory and a 500GB hard drive. Eh.. I got similar specs in laptop form for about half the price on black Friday last year. I'd like to get something like this for a desktop but I'm afraid my Ubuntu might have some issues on the hardware. I'll wait until I find it slightly used for half the cost. On a side…

>I'd like to get something like this for a desktop but I'm afraid my Ubuntu might have some issues on the hardware. I'll wait until I find it slightly used for half the cost.

You might want to look at something like https://system76.com/desktops/model/sabc2

It's similar in the idea, it will support Ubuntu (or Linux in general) 100%, no drivers problems. Obviously it's not branded Apple so some people might not like it.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#124

Post by JohnBooty »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #87
JohnBooty wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, if you examine your own life, you will find many instances where you trade time for money. Do you mend your own socks instead of throwing them out? Change your own oil in your car? Sweep your own chimney? Grow your own food? Roast and brew all of the coffee you drink? Come on.

I do a few of those, but it's a matter of cost benefit. Growing all your own food would probably cost more than buying in many cases. You have to be extremely rich to value your time in the thousands per hour.

  > You have to be extremely rich to value your 
  > time in the thousands per hour.
You and I can simply add a monitor in a few minutes, but it's not five-minute job if it's not a process you're familiar with. There are a lot of questions.

- What monitor do I even buy?

- What's a good monitor brand?

- Do I have to buy an Apple-branded monitor? If not, do I have to look for "Mac compatible" or something on the box?

- I have to buy cables?

- What cables do I need? (The customer will probably need an adapter, at least, as most monitors do not include a Mini-DP connector/adapter)

- Can I just use my TV?

And so on and so forth. It's a lot more than just the physical act of plugging a monitor in.

Again, it's so easy for us, but you if you work in the tech industry you really need to think outside of your own head sometimes. Imagine if car manufacturers expected us to manually adjust the fuel/air mix in the engine because it's just a "five minute job."

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#125

Post by hatbert »

JimmaDaRustla wrote: post #116
Pxtl wrote: post #69

This is really closing the already-small-gap between Apple and their competitors in the All-in-one space. I've been shopping for an All-in-one and it's thoroughly unimpressive - to get something with Apple-level quality, you really have to pay an Apple-level price... and at that point, you start wondering why shop with a brand with a worse reputation than Apple? I mean, I like Asus hardware, but I wouldn't want to pa…

1.4ghz core speed and no SSD? For me, and most people, this isn't closing any gap. Edit: Core speed is actually 0.3ghz lower than I thought...

The Turbo Boost clock speed is only around 15% lower than the other iMacs, though (2.7 GHz vs 3.2 GHz). It looks like the same processor as the MacBook Air. The bigger problem is probably memory--only 8GB, soldered to the board, and no option for more, even at time of purchase. Could be worse, though. With Mavericks, 8GB is about the minimum configuration for "normal people" tasks.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#126

Post by was_hellbanned »

pling wrote: post #63
projct wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comes with an SSD build-to-order option, or a fusion drive option, which is a SSD + large HDD with the SSD as a block-level cache.[1] If it's the same as last year's model[2], it isn't that hard if you are used to working on laptops or mini-itx cases. Just have to be careful about dust, have a few torx bit screwdrivers, and some adhesive strips which you can find for $15-20. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_Dr…

I already have 3 SSDs floating around that I know are good (Samsung 840 Pro). I wouldn't want to kick out for another 256Gb SSD when I already have one. Not only that, those fusion drives are terribly unreliable from experience. Regardless of that, that process is HELL compared to another machine. The thing I'm typing this on now (Lenovo T400) requires any old screwdriver you have lying around and 2 mins. 1960s point…

I wouldn't want to kick out for another 256Gb SSD when I already have one.

All current Macs[1] currently use PCIe SSD drives, which are not interchangeable with SATA SSD drives. They are, however, around 10x faster than SATA SSD drives, which is something people never seem to mention when comparing 'specs'.

[1] with the exception of the 13-inch non-Retina MBP, which is presumably being phased out.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#127

Post by stcredzero »

mgkimsal wrote: post #115
stcredzero wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar spec 2012 MBP. Are you using Trim Enabler? Otherwise, you may have lost a lot of SSD performance. Also, do you monitor RAM usage? Browsers can eat up your RAM. OS X needs RAM for disk caching for snappy performance.

I did on an older drive, but upgraded the drive in December, and lo and behold, it's not on. Rebooting now to see how this affects things. Thanks.

When using Trim Enabler, you basically have to re-check it after every system software update. (Not apps, but the OS.) I have the app set up start automatically, so I can take a look. I think there are paid options for more convenient facilities.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#128

Post by taylorwc »

JohnBooty wrote: post #85
jiggy2011 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a price premium to pay for 5 minutes extra work!

Surely, if you examine your own life, you will find many instances where you trade time for money. Do you mend your own socks instead of throwing them out? Change your own oil in your car? Sweep your own chimney? Grow your own food? Roast and brew all of the coffee you drink? Come on.

Wholeheartedly agree, and have noticed my self-perceived break even point on the trade off between time and money moves toward sacrificing money the older I get. My father in law has a memorable quote that sticks with me: "is your time not worth more than that?"

Unless it's something I enjoy doing or my ironic sense of thrift kicks into high gear, I'll sacrifice the money when reasonable.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#129

Post by hatbert »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #87
JohnBooty wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, if you examine your own life, you will find many instances where you trade time for money. Do you mend your own socks instead of throwing them out? Change your own oil in your car? Sweep your own chimney? Grow your own food? Roast and brew all of the coffee you drink? Come on.

I do a few of those, but it's a matter of cost benefit. Growing all your own food would probably cost more than buying in many cases. You have to be extremely rich to value your time in the thousands per hour.

You could start by estimating the time cost correctly. You're assuming that the time required to select the right monitor is zero, that the time required to understand the various connection standards is zero, etc., etc., etc. The only cost you're counting is the act of unboxing and plugging it in.

Maybe you and I keep track of this stuff professionally or as a hobby, but most "grandmothers" don't. Quick: What's the best lock-in amplifier for rejecting mains interference. What? You don't know what dynamic reserve means? Jeez, you're such a dummy.

Think about how you would go about buying a piece of technical equipment outside your domain of expertise. That's what a "grandmother" is doing when he/she is buying a monitor.

Re: New Entry Level 21.5-inch iMac

#130

Post by jianshen »

e40 wrote: post #94
cmelbye wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity? My grandma doesn't want to buy an "external display", she would truly have no idea where to even start to do that. And then after she's got the Mac mini, the external display, and the cable to connect the display (assuming she was able to find the right one,) someone then has to set it up for her. Compare that to an iMac. Go to the Apple store, drop $1k, take it home, plug in the power cable, and she's on…

Let's be honest here, your grandma won't buy anything without help from someone. The leap from the iMac to a monitor+mini is not very far, with the help that will certainly be given.

Having been that "help" for many years for parents and grandparents, I can guarantee you that having a setup with as few components and cables as possible that break is more for my sanity than for their comfort. As folks get a little bit older and less nimble, random cables get pulled and drinks get spilled on keyboards.
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