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The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

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Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#121

Post by enimodas »

ago wrote: post #92
zaroth wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the system did quite well with Gembe all things considered... The judge sentenced him to two years' probation, citing his rough childhood and the way he had worked to turn his life around as considerations when it came to deciding on the relatively lenient punishment. The arrest at gunpoint sounds quite dramatic, but then again they let him stop for coffee and a cigarette on the way out, so this is not the ty…

You're completely right. The police were nice to me, probably because I was very cooperative. The team was about 15 people from the LKA, including the head of the cybercrime unit. I did cause a bit of a scare when I reached for the kitchen knife to cut some bread, but they quickly realized I didnt want to stab anyone. Of course I knew that I was far better off being in Germany than anywhere else, so I wasn't worried…

if you were to enter the US now, would the police/fbi arrest you?

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#122

Post by CJefferson »

icebraining wrote: post #100
jakejake wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a kinda strange thing. Before the digital age kids like myself just did not have access to many things that could get them into so much trouble. I caused my share of mischief when I was a kid, just like most boys will do. Probably the worst tools I had at my disposal were eggs or snowballs to throw at cars. The opportunity for me to reach out from my bedroom and cause damage to a multi-national corporation or go…

You probably didn't have access because you didn't look for it. A kid with the right mindset and a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook or similar could cause a lot of panic and draw a lot of attention. The difference is not access, it's the inherently nonviolent nature of digital. It's easier to get a kid to care about not hurting others than about not hurting an abstract legal entity like a company.

Before the Internet, how would I ever had acquired a copy of the anarchists cookbook in rural England? I did know the book existed, and I am sure I would have tried some of it out if I could have got a copy.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#123

Post by macspoofing »

tzs wrote: post #114
macspoofing wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. They let him grab something to eat and even smoke a cigarette before they brought him in. Then he gets two years of probation. It all feels very reasonable to me. Compare that to the $1 million fine, 35 years in prison (followed by 3 years of supervised release) Aaron Swartz was facing by downloading documents anyone can access just by virtue of connecting to the campus Wifi. There is definitely something reall…

> Compare that to the $1 million fine, 35 years in prison (followed by 3 years of supervised release) Aaron Swartz was facing Swartz was NOT facing anywhere near 35 years in prison. He was facing, if he went to trail and lost on all charges, and the court decided that he had caused a large amount of monetary damage, around 7 years. If he had taken the plea bargain that was on the table, he was facing a few months. Pr…

Unbelievable.

>Swartz was NOT facing anywhere near 35 years in prison.

You know why people keep using that number? Because that's the number the attorney's office itself used in its own press release. That's why. But OK, let's be reasonable here. I'll fix it:

>"Compare that to the $1 million fine, up to 35 years in prison (followed by 3 years of supervised release) Aaron Swartz was facing"

There fixed it. Happy??

I'm sure from your armchair perspective, you can find nuance in saying that he wasn't __likely__ going to get 35 years, instead, he'd get a quick 7. Yet, I think if you're in that position, you may still be looking at that 35 or 50 year number. The sentencing judge could have made an example out of him as well, no? It's not like never happens. And of course, the best outcome is that he's looking at 7 + . Justice!

Of course this raises another relevant question. Why is it that prosecutors like to load-up on charges to get their nice maximums? Is it so that their office can do those great press releases extolling how tough on crime they are? Or maybe to bully the defendants into taking whatever deal they cook-up in order to get another notch on their conviction belt? If you think 7 years (here's your nice, reasonable almost-a-decade number, happy?) is what the law calls for, why not charge him for 7 years?

>If he had taken the plea bargain that was on the table, he was facing a few months.

That's right, he didn't, and then the prosecutor loaded up 35 years of charges and pulled the plea bargain off the table. Because why? To teach the next guy to not be so uppity and force them to cow-tow to prosecutor demands?

Ridiculous.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#124

Post by meowface »

Fuxy wrote: post #107
ago wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right. The police were nice to me, probably because I was very cooperative. The team was about 15 people from the LKA, including the head of the cybercrime unit. I did cause a bit of a scare when I reached for the kitchen knife to cut some bread, but they quickly realized I didnt want to stab anyone. Of course I knew that I was far better off being in Germany than anywhere else, so I wasn't worried…

To be honest if find it kind of a dick move that Valve choose to have you arrested instead of making you work your ass off to make up for your mistake. It is justified what you did was illegal and not cool but they had the chance to turn it into something positive.

I don't really think so. If I was working on a game for years, only to find out someone broke into my network, planted keyloggers on lots of my computers, and stole all of the source code for my game, I'd be interested in arresting the perpetrator as well. The game was practically Gabe's second baby.

Plus, there was no way Gabe could have known that Axel was 1) truly apologetic or 2) wasn't the one who also published the code publicly. And even if it was known, the fact that he shared it with friends showed that he didn't seem to care that much about protecting it.

That being said, I do work in the security industry and understand that Axel's motivations weren't evil or anything. Gabe still did what he should have done.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#125

Post by Fuxy »

meowface wrote: post #124
Fuxy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest if find it kind of a dick move that Valve choose to have you arrested instead of making you work your ass off to make up for your mistake. It is justified what you did was illegal and not cool but they had the chance to turn it into something positive.

I don't really think so. If I was working on a game for years, only to find out someone broke into my network, planted keyloggers on lots of my computers, and stole all of the source code for my game, I'd be interested in arresting the perpetrator as well. The game was practically Gabe's second baby. Plus, there was no way Gabe could have known that Axel was 1) truly apologetic or 2) wasn't the one who also published…

Well the damage was already there wasn't much he or anybody else could do about that so giving the guy a chance to make up for his mistake wouldn't have hurt.

Then again I'm sure he was really pissed so I can't blame him for doing what he did.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#126

Post by Retric »

n1ghtmare_ wrote: post #116
Bahamut wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? After 1 1/2 years in web development I am making significantly more than all of my game developer friends (even 2x some).

As a web developer, that's very strange to me. Honestly game development seems MUCH harder (from what I've experienced). Not sure why that's the case.

Difficulty has minimal impact on pay. It's really just a supply / demand issue and plenty of people want to be a game dev at least for a while which drives down pay.

Not necessarily total compensation but defiantly pay / hour.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#127

Post by infinotize »

Fuxy wrote: post #107
ago wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right. The police were nice to me, probably because I was very cooperative. The team was about 15 people from the LKA, including the head of the cybercrime unit. I did cause a bit of a scare when I reached for the kitchen knife to cut some bread, but they quickly realized I didnt want to stab anyone. Of course I knew that I was far better off being in Germany than anywhere else, so I wasn't worried…

To be honest if find it kind of a dick move that Valve choose to have you arrested instead of making you work your ass off to make up for your mistake. It is justified what you did was illegal and not cool but they had the chance to turn it into something positive.

Should we not arrest master car theives because they are exceptionally talented? It's not unreasonable that their talent could be fit into some productive use. What about people who burglarize homes? Who fix soccer/football matches? Shoplifters? Assuming nonviolence in these cases. Would you preume perpetrators of all of those crimes just have to "work their asses off" to make up for "mistakes?" How do you arbitrarily draw a line and say such and such crime should not be punished or enforced and another should be?

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#128

Post by DanBC »

infinotize wrote: post #127
Fuxy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest if find it kind of a dick move that Valve choose to have you arrested instead of making you work your ass off to make up for your mistake. It is justified what you did was illegal and not cool but they had the chance to turn it into something positive.

Should we not arrest master car theives because they are exceptionally talented? It's not unreasonable that their talent could be fit into some productive use. What about people who burglarize homes? Who fix soccer/football matches? Shoplifters? Assuming nonviolence in these cases. Would you preume perpetrators of all of those crimes just have to "work their asses off" to make up for "mistakes?" How do you arbitraril…

I strongly feel that those people should face some form of restorative justice rather than punitive fines or prison.

Prison is fantastically expensive, not particularly effective, and severely degrades the offender's life.

Restorative justice is much cheaper and more effective at fixing the offending behaviour, and the results of that behaviour.

Prison should be left for violent or unrepentant recidivists.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#129

Post by epsylon »

deftnerd wrote: post #2

It's stories like these that's inspired me to start up a new project at oppressed.me. I'm trying to compile a list of hackers and hacktivists that have been imprisoned in order to let the internet easily send them correspondence. I'm also going to ask publishers for donations of older copies of technical books to send them. A lot of hackers are just kids that make a stupid mistake. During their time in jail, their sk…

I must have been following the grugq[1] way too much because all I couldn't help thinking about the massive OPSEC mistakes he did.

Fortunately he was apprehended by the German Police, but things would've been way different had took that plane.

[1] There's a great presentation from him on video, including analysis of OPSEC failures from other hacker groups: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XaYdCdwiWU

[2] Another timeless classic: "Don't talk to [the] police", which explains why it is never in your interest to talk to the police when you are suspected of a crime (even if you are innocent): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#130

Post by jere »

Bahamut wrote: post #91
psykotic wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going on personal knowledge and IGDA salary surveys. What part of the industry are your friends in? I should maybe have mentioned that the growing F2P, casual, mobile segment bears little resemblance, economically and otherwise, to what I would consider the traditional AAA game industry (which may eventually go the way of the dodo).

I have friends in various parts of the industry - F2P, AAA, mobile, and indie. The consensus amongst my friends in game development is that it doesn't pay well for the amount of work they're doing, but it's what they enjoy doing so they're willing to tolerate it. I should also mention that I am a bit of an anomaly - I'm an AngularJS expert, which seems to be in extremely high demand right now. I'm making around $160k…

You make almost twice the median for developers in the US, so I'm not surprised that you make twice as much as some of your friends (and more than twice as much as me).

To be honest, I had no idea such salaries were to be found in web dev, especially by specializing in popular JS frameworks. Thanks for sharing! I'd be curious to know your location and how much experience you have in Angular. [update: Oh, I see you posted 1.5 years in web dev.... wow, maybe I should reevaluate things]

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