Next time, yell: "She's got a bomb!"
Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
121–130 of 144 posts
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#122There was a group of about 12-15 high school age girls and 10 of them were just watching 3 or 4 of them gang up on 1 of them.
WTF do I do here? I had the same thought process as many people in this thread. I could get involved, but realistically, there's absolutely no way I'm going to go try to break up a fight with that many people in it, let alone teenage girls.
I watched for about 5 seconds before I started to get my phone out to call the cops (which I also felt bad about b/c... wtf are they going to do... something needs to happen now).
Luckily for the kid, she managed to get away and they stopped pursuing her. But man, the feeling of helplessness sucked pretty hard.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#123I think there's several things going on here. One is diffusion of responsibility or bystander effects, which I think she's hinting at. In a crowd an individual is less likely to take action. I think this has a lot to do with our social instincts. Being in a crowd of strangers is a new thing. We aren't built for it. On our own, we make decisions for ourselves. That's easy. A group is supposed to be a family or troop o…
Skill set comes into it to. If you have a dog with an injured paw then different people will willingly help you (dog lovers) than those people that will willingly help you find a lost cat (cat lovers). Same with directions, some random tourist might not be as willing to help you with directions as a native, the tourist could probably get the maps out on their phone, but they will not feel as if that is the thing to d…
"..we don't have to go very far back in our history until we find that all the information that reached us was relevant to us and therefore anything that happened, any news, whether it was about something that's actually happened to us, in the next house, or in the next village, within the boundary or within our horizon, it happened in our world and if we reacted to it the world reacted back. It was all relevant to us, so for example, if somebody had a terrible accident we could crowd round and really help. Nowadays, because of the plethora of one-to-many communication we have, if a plane crashes in India we may get terribly anxious about it but our anxiety doesn't have any impact. We're not very well able to distinguish between a terrible emergency that's happened to somebody a world away and something that's happened to someone round the corner. We can't really distinguish between them any more, which is why we get terribly upset by something that has happened to somebody in a soap opera that comes out of Hollywood and maybe less concerned when it's happened to our sister. We've all become twisted and disconnected and it's not surprising that we feel very stressed and alienated in the world because the world impacts on us but we don't impact the world."
Why do we even have an expectation that someone in the street will help us any more than we have an expectation that someone in a different country would help us.
The majority of us have, right now, the ability to help someone with similarly urgent problems. Medical or nutritional. There are still people campaign out after their house got blown away in the Philipines earthquake.
Thinking about this as "not my area" is an anonymous mentality. Like saying "I support education projects. I don't know anything about refugee projects." She is asking "Why didn't you behave like my friends and neighbors"
We could help them without endangering ourselves. If I was one the the bystanders who didn't help this person, I would feel ashamed. Is this sentiment a vestige?
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say that as if it's a minor thing ("the only thing I'd expect") but you might be expecting someone to risk their life, get accused of rape by an unstable person, put themselves in danger of injury or lawsuit. It's not a trivial matter. Strongly seconded. This happens more often than one would think. I do not want to alarm anyone but it is not entirely out of the bounds of reason to expect law enforcement to NOT a…
That guy did not leave after the police arrived and told him to leave (according to his own account, at the URL you give).
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#125This is an example of the real world. Its nothing new, nor likely to change. History is full of "bad things" happening to people, on a large and small scale, that happened because others did nothing to stop it.
My comment does not mean that people should not help others who are in need, but suggesting this is something new - possibly due to changes in technology - reinforces the (wrong) idea that people think the world is a safe place.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#126hard to believe this is true, I'm in Toronto and some of the dark corners of US society are alien....but it's just sad. And I shouldn't have spent too much time reading the comments on here about hypothetical not-helping scenarios etc. sigh. Tough situation/sad.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#127Let's evaluate for real, the cost-benefit of intervening physically against a knife-wielding crazy person: -- Minimum: you'll miss the day of work, have an arrest on your record which you'll have to disclose forever and which may cost you your career, may make it impossible to enter foreign countries, and so on. -- Probable: you'll miss many days of work due to police/legal complications. Significant chance of losing…
I feel like I miss something here. Why would you be arrested for Helping? I can see that you would have a risk of getting hurt or killed by the attacker, but why would you be arrested or killed by the Police?
When the police come to sort out an altercation in progress, everyone involved is going to get tackled, rolled face down, have a cop kneel on your neck with his entire body weight, have your arms wrenched behind your back, and placed in handcuffs. That is the best, least physical outcome possible.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#128A few weeks ago, I was pedalling to work in the rain when I saw something which briefly made me well up with rage: a car parked diagonally across the cycle lane, driver clearly on the phone - a new level of "f*ck you" from a motorist to cyclists. But then I saw the skid-marks leading across the verge from the road, and I realised this was a bit more serious. I stopped and tapped on the window. She was very distraught…
He was bouncing off the bottom to get air (he couldn't swim) but his face was turning blue, and he was making choking noises and frantically splashing. I tried to grab him, and pull him to the sandbar. He clawed onto me and began drowning me. I punched and pried and kicked underwater to get him off of me, and thanked God when I got him off and got ten feet away and got air again. I yelled for help. The people on the beach 100 yards away did nothing. Perhaps it was disbelief... I ran through the knee deep water as fast as I could to them and yelled for help as I got there. Nobody moved. I wasn't thinking, just moving, and there were those styrofoam noodles on the ground next to their blanket. I snatched one without saying a word and ran back to the water faster than I ever have before.
By the time I got to him it was ugly. He was still bouncing up from the bottom, but he was barely conscious, and his face looked like something from a horror movie. I've seen some horrific shit, but a drowning person at that stage looks like a zombie. He grabbed the noodle, and I pulled him the 15 feet or so to the sandbar. 15 feet, and it was knee deep water. He couldn't walk, and I picked him up fireman's style, and he was coughing out and puking water all down my back as I carried him to shore. This was the 90s, so there were no cell phones in the rural county I lived in. I ran into a house near the beach and had the ambulance come. He almost died later of a lung infection, but he's ok now.
I asked my dad that night why nobody helped. My dad told me that I was a "helper" like him. (he was a volunteer EMT his whole life, and a volunteer fireman. Plus I watched him help strangers all the time growing up.) "Most people aren't helpers." he said.
As I've gotten older, I figured out that is the case. And when you a helper, you have to help a lot. I don't know what it is, but basically maybe 80 to 90% of people don't do shit in these situations. They subconsciously don't even notice. And being a helper sucks, a lot, sometimes, but you still do it because you don't think you just do and your gut won't let you. You can't walk away because of some deep down feeling that you are subhuman if you do.
My worst helper experience was stopping a guy in a rural NC bar's parking lot from beating his girlfriend. I started fighting him, and his GF (who he had just been beating) smashed a bottle on my head. My vision went blurry, and she jumped on my back and I fell to the ground. They both then proceeded to beat the shit out of me on the gravel parking lot ground.
Now, I avoid going into the "hipster" neighborhoods of DC. As my wife pointed out, nobody in these neighborhoods is a helper. Helpers can't live in these neighborhoods long, because inevitably you end up getting sucked into this shit and you are always alone.
Did I oversimplify? Maybe. But that's my experience. I can't help but help people in trouble, and in urban and suburban areas, its probably a bad evolutionary strategy. In the country, not so much. People care there, and they reciprocate. This is probably due to such small social groups....... Wow, I ranted for a while.
I'm so sorry for this woman...... I wish I'd have been there.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If someone was caring a gun, they could have helped. If she were caring, then she could have put an end to this nightmare herself. No, that is not how it would work out in most (if not all) cases. Especially not in such a public place. And especially not if the gun was contained in something, e.g. her purse. Even if that person were a great shot, in a (even moderately) close combat fight with a knife-wielder, she w…
Typically people who don't own a gun don't have any training with guns. These same people also think that people who do have guns don't have any training as well. In fact, most people who own guns are well trained. I can also assure you that even under stress you can hit a human sized target from 15 feet very easily. Most of the state laws about even brandishing a fire arm have to do with inescapable life threatening…
I quote the article: "She pulled the knife out further and pushed it into my blue purse" Into the purse that would have contained the gun. I think she would have been stabbed before she could have reached inside.
No one intend on robbing you up close and personal is going to pull out his knife from 15 feet away or announce to you from that distance, especially in such a public situation, that he's going to rob you. He wants to threaten you with a knife, not with his voice.
And this is what I mean with "training": the reflexes to pull your gun instinctively when seeing a flash of a weapon in pretty much any situation, in this case: With your headphones on and watching some movement on your phone, as she was doing.
Maybe most gun owners are well trained enough to hit moving people at some distance, but I would argue, that nearly none of them are well trained enough to hit somebody who is moving within arms reach and will try to hit you with a knife/grab your arm/etc.. Most martial arts practitioners will say that they are not well trained enough to evade/fight somebody untrained but handling a knife.
> you think there's still an ethical issue?
I will argue ethics whenever the outcome is death, especially when there are bystanders and even more when the other option is to lose some possessions.
Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.
#130I wish this wasn't the case, but as a man, there is no way I am getting involved in a fight between two strange women . No way. There is no upside for me and unlimited downside, in fact that downside is virtually guaranteed. This is the way things are in 2014.
The one difference in the story though is that a guy that knew the victim realized what was going on, walked with her a couple steps and then left her on her own. I can somewhat understand not getting involved with strangers - you don't know if the apparent victim is actually the instigator or even if the two are pulling a scam together. But if I even peripherally knew a woman and she told me she was being robbed at…
But you know what doesn't suck? The honor culture. (to be fair, its the root of a LOT of bad things too) You are taught from birth that if you don't protect those weaker than yourself (provided they aren't gay or non-white, since of course this IS the south.... sigh) you are not a worthy human being.
Not helping a person you know who is in dire need is the lowest of the lowest of the low. You learn this as a kid. If you see my previous comment, I'm not armchair quarterbacking here, I've actually helped people, and had some very bad things and good things happen as a result.
Of course, someone else on here pointed out how much less violent society has become, and how we no longer know how to react to it. I think this is true, which explains my whole theory on southerners, since the southern U.S. has much, much higher rates of violence amongst both blacks and whites than the other parts of the country.