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Do Men Suck At Friendship?

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Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#121

Post by PeterisP »

wyager wrote: post #7

This article implies that living a long life should be the ultimate driving goal behind our actions. What's wrong with "convenience", "mentor", or "activity" friendships? They sound perfectly logical and reasonable to me. Just because these kind of friendships might not contribute as much to longevity doesn't make them wrong.

The problem with "convenience", "mentor", or "activity" friendships, as the article later explains, is that they tend to rapidly go away when the convenience, mentorship or particular activity ceases.

If you want a long-term friendship, then you'd need to push those relationships beyond the convenience/mentorship/activity to have more than that single tie that may randomly disappear.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#122

Post by Hasu »

adwn wrote: post #97
colechristensen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of cringing, the adjective you're looking for is 'American'.

I wonder when "America" ceased to mean "the two continents North and South America" and started to mean "USA" in the heads of US citizens. There's a reason why "European" isn't synonymous to "German", and why "Asian" isn't synonymous to "Chinese".

It's been going on since long before you were born. John Adams(our second President) called the United States "America" in his inaugural address. [1]

We use "The Americas" to refer to the continents as a pair, and prepend a cardinal direction to refer to one of them individually.

Citizens of the Commonwealth of Australia call themselves Australians, despite there being other governments on the continent of Australia.

[1]: http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres15.html

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#123

Post by kitsune_ »

In my experience it's the total opposite: I've known most of my friends since kindergarten. We all know each others dreams, hopes and fears and support each other without being judgmental. We share a common set of values. I could vanish without saying a word and they'd welcome me back with open arms 10 years later.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#124

Post by mironathetin »

Xcelerate wrote: post #78

> That's because nearly all research into healthy aging has found that the key to a long, happy life is not diet or exercise but strong social connections – that is, friendships. Loneliness accelerates age-related declines in cognition and motor function, while a single good friend has been shown to make as much as a 10-year difference in overall life expectancy. This makes me sad :( My mother passed away from cancer…

My father died 7 years ago after my parents had been married for more than 50 years. After a few years of solitude, my mother started to develop a whole new life (with 80). I think this will develop also for your father, it just takes time. But he has to be ready for it and there is little you can do to accelerate the process. Maybe he was busy with you and your sister until recently?

Key for him is to leave the house. Go to the doctor, buy fresh food on the market instead of in the mall and chat a few words with the farmers, join sports teams (my mother did when she was 78) or meet with colleagues for a beer (they all want an excuse not to go home, believe me).

My brother and I also live far away. That is not a problem (as long as he is in good health…), because it assures that your father has to manage his life for himself instead of sitting down and let you organize it. Also make him visit you instead of the other way round. This will let him leave the house, see different towns, revive his interest in life and discovery and he has to make plans (this is important). It worked for us, at least.

Where I live, also the church has groups for tea/coffee and cake. So has the red cross. This may aim at older people but it is great to go there. My mother loves it. (yes, I know, she is a woman and women make contacts easier). But, as I said, some day he will be ready.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#125

Post by mcmullen »

srean wrote: post #106
wikiburner wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would get him a dog. I would also set him up on Skype so that you and your sister can interact with him in a personable way more often.

This is actually a great suggestion. If you are a dog person it can bring a lot of joy, amusement and companionship. The thing that sucks though is that they very short lives. My lhasa apso did live to be 17 years, but this is unusual for most other dog breeds. About loneliness and losing people dear, my brother's friend's dad lost his parents, wife and son all at an unusually early age. I would have no idea how to d…

I also agree with this suggestion. I know that battle grounds are drawn on the dog vs cat debate, but either/or would do well for most lonely people. My wife's grandfather died when we first started seeing each other; 5/6 or so (oops - I hope she isn't reading) years ago. Bizarrely, this was within a few months of his dog dying. He took that thing everywhere - snook him into hotel rooms, family houses, the golf club, trips abroad.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#126

Post by ericd »

reinhardt wrote: post #73
victorhooi wrote: post #20

This article really resonates with me. Many of my male friendships do seem to resonate around convenience (i.e. we help each other) or activities. If you take that away...I'm unsure what the depth is. This could just be me though. I do have friendships with females who are nothing like me, which are more around just...fun/chatting/hanging out. But either way, friendships do take work/effort - and sometimes you need t…

It really resonates with me too at a personal level but at the same time it's quite surprising if this is indeed so widespread across men. I'm an extreme introvert with few, if any, close friends and relationships or a strong desire for such, and it has always befuddled me how smooth and effortless many friendships look from the outside. The whole concept of "hanging out" without some common ground or a common activi…

I've found that there are people that I instantly click with, typically people to whom I can speak my mind without any filter, and who come back at me with theirs. I think filters and worrying about being inoffensive in general really gets in the way for a lot of people.

I think that if you want to get past the polite acquaintance stage, you have to risk offending them, which can be scary, but I think one really good friend is worth more than almost any number of acquaintances, so I think it's worth it.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#127

Post by lmm »

zhemao wrote: post #51
ashwinaj wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Strangers are outwardly friendly for no apparent reason. The worst part was when I met them again, many of them wouldn't recognize me! I was mainly referring to the convenience/activity/mentor friends described in the article.

> Strangers are outwardly friendly for no apparent reason Why should one need a reason to be friendly? Would you rather people be curt and standoffish by default?

If everyone is your friend then no-one is. I wouldn't say curt and standoffish, but it's good to keep a certain amount of distance and formality with people you're not actually friends with so that you both know where you stand.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#128

Post by yason »

Xcelerate wrote: post #78

> That's because nearly all research into healthy aging has found that the key to a long, happy life is not diet or exercise but strong social connections – that is, friendships. Loneliness accelerates age-related declines in cognition and motor function, while a single good friend has been shown to make as much as a 10-year difference in overall life expectancy. This makes me sad :( My mother passed away from cancer…

On the other hand, it's not your responsibility to arrange for your dad what you think is best for him. He's an adult and will try to make the most of his life and will succeed or fail to be happy on his own.

I'm a father and I wouldn't want my kids to patch my lonely life if I have one: they have their own lives and I have mine and it's certainly nice to see them sometimes but it can never be a deal breaker.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#129

Post by jzzskijj »

I've realized that many men (I know) want to talk about their feelings, frustrations, relationships, insecurities etc., when given a good example and opening up a little at first. I learned to do that a couple of years ago, when I was going through difficult times. Went to meet a friend for a couple of beers, started slowly talking, without whining or complaining, about things that make me insecure and we realized opening up and talking about all kinds of "non-manly" things that made us feel bad. That friend relationship deepened into totally new level and since then I've gone through same thing with many of my real friends.

1) Open up, 2) Share, 3) Listen, 4) Care.

It felt really great to get a SMS a week later saying "how are things and are you feeling better?"

Not saying that I am a perfect friend or Mr. Empathy, but I feel that I am a little bit better person than I used to be.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#130

Post by jon_black »

> That's because nearly all research into healthy aging has found that the key to a long, happy life is not diet or exercise but strong social connections

Epicurus believed that three things were necessary for a happy existence:

1. Friends 2. Freedom 3. Thought (as in personal reflection on yourself and your life)

I believe that in life there are many doors and therefore many keys. If you find a key and it opens a door, do not assume that all other doors will open for you; likewise, do not assume that what's behind the door you have opened is the answer to life long happiness.

It's quite frustrating that as a species we try to reduce such complex matters into such simple rules.

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