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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#121

Post by asdfologist »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #77
mikeash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they're protesting not his opinions, but his efforts to have his opinions turned into laws. It's one thing to be against gay marriage. It's quite another to spend one's own money on outlawing it.

So let's play this through in an imaginary scenario. Next year I decide I like my neighbor, who's running for governor in the American Nazi party. I write him a check for $500. So now I can't work in the tech industry? Really? And this makes sense to folks? So you're saying thinking is okay, but acting is not. So is there some list of things I can and can't do and expect to have a job? Or is it just made up off-the-c…

Can you stop making strawman arguments? No one said he can't work in the tech industry, or anything even close.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#122

Post by mason55 »

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #111
anaphor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Mozilla started actively discriminating against people and campaigning against minority rights I would have no problem taking the code and starting a forked version. IMO that's what's so great about FLOSS, if you disagree with how something is managed you can ignore the people who created it and start your own version along with other people who agree. So I wouldn't really be worried about the current state o…

Yes that's the fantasy. The reality is you can't just casually fork a project as big as mozilla. The only way that codebase stays even barely maintained with security bug fixes, is with its army of coders. The great thing about FLOSS is that it's POSSIBLE. The not so great thing about it is, in many cases you're probably better off just starting from scratch.

People probably would have said that about MySQL a few years ago

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#123

Post by vezzy-fnord »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #88
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws. The USA is based on Christian laws? What? No doubt there's a faction that is working on that goal, but that has never been the case in this country thus far. Also, it's not like the Democrats (the party of the KKK) are much better in that regard.

Do you think Prop 8 is anything but a Christian law? Oh wait I just tried to rationalize with a guy who compared the Democratic party to the KKK. Nevermind, good luck with being nuts.

I did not compare the Democratic Party to the KKK, I was saying that it was the Democratic Party that primarily supported the KKK during most of its first two incantations.

Do not twist my words. If having a basic knowledge of U.S. history is being nuts, then so be it.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#124

Post by joyeuse6701 »

jkelsey wrote: post #45

I'm trying to keep this in perspective with all the massively positive things that Mozilla has done over the years. I've used Firefox all the time, proclaimed the value of Mozilla to others, and even donated to Mozilla. Regardless, I'm having a hard time getting past this. I started up Firefox this morning, and almost immediately, I felt dirty. I closed it and switched over to Chromium. I can't buy the argument that…

Will you boycott every company that has an employee that has belief that isn't yours? Isn't that the definition of intolerance? One of those things, I guess, can't tolerate the intolerant =).

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#125

Post by wwweston »

redbad wrote: post #17
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #9

Meh. Prop 8 passed the people's vote with 7,001,084 Californians voting in favor of it and 6,401,482 voting against. Are we to start boycotting every company that employs one of those 7 million people? I'm glad it was made right in the end and I hope at least some of those 7 million people have changed their opinion... but I don't think we need to keep dwelling on it.

1. There is a difference between voting for something and funding it. 2. There is a difference between being employed by a company and being its CEO. 3. These differences are significant.

Significant, but apparently inarticulable?

Here's a couple of other differences that might be worth reflecting on:

1. What support Eich provided for proposed law vs actions he's likely to support as CEO -- in other words, what you can actually tell about Eich by the fact that he provided financial support for the law, and what you might know about him by considering a larger totality of his actions.

If you want a parallel, consider what Janis Ian has said about Orson Scott Card:

http://www.janisian.com/forum/showthread.php?7952-Orson-Scot...

2. Now vs then. In 2008, the then president of the united states supported prop 8. The current president of the US was on record as not sure about it (and against gay marriage). If we're talking about the height of the profile of a position -- and you seem to be in making a distinction between an employee and CEO -- then I'd say leadership of Mozilla is pretty pale by comparison.

3. While Mozilla is arguably a "values" organization (presumably an important distinction), it's working in a sphere that's pretty orthogonal from identity-minority rights. If you'd argue that doesn't matter, I suppose that's one approach, but if so, I presume that you'd also decide that GLAAD should also be generally boycotted because of their 2011 support of the T-Mobile/AT&T merger and opposition to Net Neutrality principles.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#126

Post by Zigurd »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

How many people here work with Google technologies and yet are quite able to criticize Google for not providing easy tools for end-to-end encryption and/or for taking part in anti-poaching collusion?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#127

Post by Mikeb85 »

hugi wrote: post #99
wodenokoto wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the not in "but not in others" is over-qualifying. Saying that Mozilla does not value gay rights because of 1000 dollars, donated once, indirectly associated with Mozilla is a crazy given how much they actually spend directly on supporting the cause yearly. I'm not saying that a care package for 1.000 dollars negates Eichs contribution. But you can't say they don't value gay rights either.

What type of person you choose to head your operations obviously reflects your ideals. It really doesn't matter if Mr. Eich donated 1000 dollars or a million dollars, he opposes basic human rights. And apparently Mozilla is fine with that.

Gay marriage isn't a 'basic human right'. It's subscribing to a governmental institution.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#128

Post by asdfologist »

drone wrote: post #119
kefka wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I would argue that fighting against marriage rights (for LGBT) is our version of Jim Crow laws. History will show that people; all people deserve equal rights and protections under the law. Desegregation took decades, and arguably still isn't completely successful, given laws that disproportionately target black communities. And this isn't about a church refusing to marry someone because of their sexuality. This…

If it's important, shouldn't people be able to have a conversation, and fund a conversation? The supreme court has equated financial contribution with speech, and many of us agree with that position. Therefore, we can only see this as an attempt to ostracize and attack anyone who speaks to the opposite side. This action is chilling on speech, which is exactly what the OP was talking about. Just because you don't see…

Simply "taking a view we don't agree with" isn't the same thing as actively funding an effort to take away the rights of others, including ones who work in the company you're managing.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#129

Post by Mikeb85 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #52
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #9

Meh. Prop 8 passed the people's vote with 7,001,084 Californians voting in favor of it and 6,401,482 voting against. Are we to start boycotting every company that employs one of those 7 million people? I'm glad it was made right in the end and I hope at least some of those 7 million people have changed their opinion... but I don't think we need to keep dwelling on it.

Welcome to Hacker News, bastion of intellectual freedom, where large number of people will now argue that you should be deprived of employment because you donated money to certain unpopular political campaigns. Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

> Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

I'm actually surprised this isn't a thing...

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#130

Post by Zigurd »

lawl wrote: post #53
Karellen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views?" Uh, integrity? If a politician won't keep probably the most solemn vow they've ever made, to the person they were most committed to in their life, in front of all the other people they care about most, why the fuck do you think they'll keep some fucking campaign promise to you and a bunch of other faceless citizens they've never met to make your lives be…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_marriage Just saying... Making public you're in an open relationship will kill your career as a politican just as fast, wanna bet?

That's a terrible example. It would only be a career killer among people with a propensity toward intolerance. And there are plenty of places, some of which are represented by politicians with unconventional relationships, that don't care.
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