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Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

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Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#121

Post by umsm »

forgotAgain wrote: post #17

The limit we've run into with iOS is not getting a good looking UI. Rather it's the performance of Javascript in Safari. We have a fairly large one page webapp that looks great on iOS however the performance is an order of magnitude slower on an iPad than Chrome on an old laptop.

I don't know the details of your app, but I have a feeling that there are many places where you can optimize it.

You can't just take a desktop app and stick it on the phone. It will perform poorly.

But you have to design mobile (web) apps from the ground up relying on the strengths of the mobile platform.

One idea is to limit the functionality of the mobile app. Tasks which are very UI heavy should probably be simplified or removed.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#122

Post by Iftheshoefits »

marknutter wrote: post #49
my3681 wrote: post #14

I'm not knocking this or any particular xxxx-to-mobile platform, but as a native iOS and android developer, I would highly recommend just learning the native languages and frameworks. First, you have the absolute most control you will ever have over your application. This may not be true when a particular tool becomes popular, say at the release of a new tool, but this definitely shows up as time progresses. Who know…

So if you want a web app, an android app, and an iPhone app, you have to code it up 3 different times in three different languages. The reason why the web exploded in popularity as a development target is precisely because it made it easier to target a larger number of customers. Imagine if Facebook had started out as a Windows XP / Linux / OSX native application. It never would have even got off the ground. My take…

No, the web exploded in popularity as a development target because the labor pool is so diluted that it's easy, quick, and cheap to hire (and fire) any random "webdev" who is good enough for their purposes. And that's why, unless I get desperate, I wouldn't put PHP on my resume and would only list non-webapp projects for other languages I've used professionally but which are also used for webapps (e.g. python)--I don't want to put myself into that (cheap) labor market.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#123

Post by streptomycin »

rimantas wrote: post #103
streptomycin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason I think they're dragging their feet on various parts of HTML5 that everyone else has already implemented, such as IndexedDB.

You forgot to mention the part where Apple was first to implement features that later become known as HTML5. Also, the story of Web SQL and IndexedDB is not so simple.

Can you tell the story that explains why Apple has done nothing with IndexedDB for years while every browser vendor implemented it a while ago? Because the story as I see it is very clear: Apple embraced the web when they had very small market share, and they're doing the opposite now that they have a good chunk of the market. Walled gardens generally aren't very profitable if you have only a tiny fraction of the market.

Of course, it'll be hard for you to tell a convincing story because (AFAIK) Apple hasn't even commented on IndexedDB. Strange, for such a well-established open standard. Even MS has supported it for years!

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#124

Post by tluyben2 »

marknutter wrote: post #116
rimantas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely you never tried to do what you preach. You will end writing your app only a little bit faster (if you are lucky) and then three times more on debugging.

I have. I built an HTML5 hybrid mobile app for Android and iOS. It was about 90% JS/HTML/CSS and 10% native code. Worked very well for our purposes. You can judge for yourself, it's called Kona and in both major app stores.

Eh yeah. Exactly what I said then reading the Android reviews then? Works on some devices, terrible on most; getting that JS/HTML/CSS to work well on 'most Android devices' is infinitely more difficult than doing it native. Is that worth it? I still want to bet I could've written both apps native in a shorter time with much better results. You can take me up on that any time.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#125

Post by tluyben2 »

EC1 wrote: post #98
tluyben2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever try jQM? My god. I applaud any efforts to move away from it.

JQM is so unbelievably terrible. Been working with it for the past year.

I'm so sorry... I have seriously not often in my 30 years of being a coder seen something so promising turn out so bad. It doesn't even get the 'hello world' right. Why have you been working for it for the past year?

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#126

Post by madoublet »

jfahrenkrug wrote: post #91
madoublet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was true a year ago, but mobile browsers are getting better and projects like this and Ionic (ionicframework.com) are quickly closing the gap between native and HTML5.

"Never" is much too strong a word to use, but I think that it is very very very unlikely that any major mobile vendor (Apple, Google, Microsoft) will invest much time and money to make the web a first-class citizen for apps on their platform. Each company wants to offer the best experience on THEIR platform and offer features that are only available on THEIR platform so that more developers develop apps for only thei…

True, but I do think the platforms will continue to invest in browser technology and processors will improve. I am amazed by how fast Chrome is improving and the type of experiences it is enabling.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#127

Post by fvt »

beagle90 wrote: post #72
fvt wrote: post #64

I'm baffled that a technology stack (HTML, JS) that every single web developer think is broken (but still have to deal with) is being considered for iOS development, and being promoted as an easy way to develop native apps. This is where I think RubyMotion offered the best of both worlds: native APIs and Ruby's flexibility (even if Objective-C is really not that bad or hard to learn).

Web Dev here. I don't think the stack is broken.

Positioning elements, fighting to implement the support of multiples screen resolutions, dealing with JS quarks, etc. All those topics are mastered in most native frameworks and clearly a hot topic in web dev.

Maybe broken is a little bit exaggerated, but very well deserved IMHO.

After several years in web dev _and_ mobile dev, I can safely say that even in a couple of years, native toolchains won't be relegated to a marginal role and remain the only efficient way of developing native apps.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#128

Post by auvrw »

marknutter wrote: post #116
rimantas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely you never tried to do what you preach. You will end writing your app only a little bit faster (if you are lucky) and then three times more on debugging.

I have. I built an HTML5 hybrid mobile app for Android and iOS. It was about 90% JS/HTML/CSS and 10% native code. Worked very well for our purposes. You can judge for yourself, it's called Kona and in both major app stores.

> 90% JS/HTML/CSS and 10% native code.

this was going to be my comment on the original comment: it's not like you have to do only HTML5 or only native, or so i'm given to understand... i'd be interested to hear more about the hybrid approach if anyone has links/blog posts.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#129

Post by tluyben2 »

auvrw wrote: post #128
marknutter wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. I built an HTML5 hybrid mobile app for Android and iOS. It was about 90% JS/HTML/CSS and 10% native code. Worked very well for our purposes. You can judge for yourself, it's called Kona and in both major app stores.

> 90% JS/HTML/CSS and 10% native code. this was going to be my comment on the original comment: it's not like you have to do only HTML5 or only native, or so i'm given to understand... i'd be interested to hear more about the hybrid approach if anyone has links/blog posts.

10/90 is Phonegap/Cordova; when hybrid is viable (imho) is when you need to show complex documents; what HTML was made for. So the parts in your native app where you need to show documents with nice flowing text, images, charts, etc HTML is a good option, but then the 10/90 is usually not native/html, but the other way around.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#130

Post by tfinniga »

CmonDev wrote: post #82
tfinniga wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only advantage of building an app using web technologies, that it's cross platform There are other advantages of building an app using web technologies. Maybe you want to link to a store that doesn't pay Apple 30%. Maybe you want to control your own updates. Etc.

> Maybe you want to link to a store that doesn't pay Apple 30% Isn't this explicitly forbidden on AppStore by Apple regardless of technology? > Maybe you want to control your own updates. This is what some games do, you don't need HTML/JS for that.

Right, that's an app store rule. However, if you've got an HTML 5 app you don't need to install it through the app store. For example, forecast.io.

I'm not sure what you're saying about games controlling their own updates. What I was talking about specifically is that a web app can update at any time, without the vetting process required of apps in the app store. My understanding was that app store apps couldn't download and execute new code.

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