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Burnout

kristinn.ghost.io

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Re: Burnout

#121

Post by woah »

hashberry wrote: post #114
dpcan wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've reached a similar conclusion lately in dealing with burnout. I'm trying to figure out who I really want to be, rather than what I thought I was supposed to be. It wasn't so much movies,books,etc, but as a 34 yr-old ex-computer geek of the 90's, I'm dealing with my own "expectations" complex. I spent day and night back then on computers, building them, fixing them, coding, fixing them at schools, local businesses…

You're not alone. I'm in my 30s and daydream about having a post on the frontpage of HN with everyone "recognizing" how awesome my projects/thoughts are. How can anyone be satisfied with mediocrity?

It's not hard to get stuff on the front page. Make a reasonably nice project, get a designer friend to do a landing page. Then let 10 of your friends know beforehand, get a commitment for upvotes.

Post it, get your friends to upvote it (DO NOT send them a direct link, the HN spam system picks that up, they need to find it themselves on the new page).

This will buy you maybe like 30 minutes on the frontpage, from there something lame will drop, something decent will stick for a few hours, and something more awesome/controversial can stay all day.

I've been directly involved in like 3 of these (as landing page designer), and an "upvoting friend" in maybe about 10. YC companies do this (I was surprised at first, I thought they got a magic orange YC upvote button).

Extra Credit: A "midbrow dismissal" in the comments that is then debunked in a condescending/clever response can be helpful.

Re: Burnout

#122

Post by sitkack »

derefr wrote: post #67
agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." --temporarily-embarrassed millionaires who, I might add, all know that it is their "destiny," their Heroic Tale to tell, to "regain" those millions through Hard Work, Grit and Stick-To-It-iveness. (But not Cunning. Cunning is for villains, like that guy who got the promot…

The feutalism of a you-can-be-anything you want society. Only if you try hard enough. If you aren't successful, your fault, didn't try hard enough.

Re: Burnout

#123

Post by agentultra »

objectified wrote: post #81
agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

While reading your great comment, I was hoping you'd continue explaining where these desires and ambitions would come from, and why they can cause burnout. But yes, people will have to figure that out for themselves. I've found that the patterns you describe come very close to conversations I've been having with people about playing music (which I've been doing intensively for quite a while now): I hear a lot of peop…

> people will have to figure that out for themselves.

... that's why I didn't go on about my own personal experiences and lack of answers.

> Motivations always get distorted by psychological influences

And if you start investigating the source of your ambitions and desires you may suspect, as I do, that many of them are not your own.

> why they can cause burnout

I hope I explained that. In highly reduced terms it boils down to anticipating the outcome of an endeavor based on an idealized version of reality. When you put in the effort to achieve those outcomes and are disappointed by the results you get burnt out. The hard part is figuring out where your idealized reality is coming from.

Re: Burnout

#124

Post by noname123 »

ehl wrote: post #120
noname123 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in…

Nice meta-comment! Your facetious meter is up to eleven, although I don't think they will get it.

Yes ehl, thanks for acknowledging the point - but who are we to judge? It is up to each man to discover who they're through experience, advice are worthless and the youth is only wasted on the young. And that's life in an essence: I'm finished. I'm fucked. Show Me the Money! You complete me ... just shut up, you had me at hello.

Re: Burnout

#125

Post by Mandatum »

teacup50 wrote: post #10
EC1 wrote: post #3

> A few years ago I wanted to know everything. I spent the day at work thinking about what I would do when I got home and then spend the evening studying various things as hard as I could. I would stress over how there werent enought hours in the day to do what I wanted to do. There was rarely an hour in the day where I wasnt productive in some way. Oou, this resonates with me. For the past year I've been trying to o…

From someone in his 30s for whom this also resonates: The list never gets smaller. If anything, it not only gets longer, but the list items themselves grow even more ambitious and far reaching. I've done great things. I've started sustainable companies, released a prodigious amount of code, and some of it has shifted the course of industry and secured my position in it. At the same time, I'm exhausted. I'm tired of n…

You and your wife should try going out into the wilderness for a week. Here in New Zealand it's not so common as outdoor activities are so popular, so there's no point to it, however for those of us who never seem to cut ourselves any slack these can totally give your mind the break it needs and let you feel completely rejuvenated.

I've managed to get a few good ideas for side projects I'm truly passionate about that I'd really consider low-hanging-fruit in terms of work vs. satisfaction. Idea's I'd never in a million years think about if I didn't just sit down for a day and just think. And I didn't have to do that, because for most of the day we were strolling through forest, looking at trees and rivers, planning where we'd travel to the next day.

Plus it's pretty great to do this sort of thing with your SO.

Re: Burnout

#126

Post by npsimons »

gamegoblin wrote: post #65
agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

Hanging out on sites like this definitely doesn't help. In every thread it seems like there is someone who is a perfect expert on whatever being discussed. Need to diagnose a problem in a defunct modem using only an oscilloscope? Someone can. Strange behavior of the JVM? Oh, someone has implemented their own JVM on a 4kb machine as a hobby project. Then you get username delineation and there is this idea of some abst…

There's two good reasons to hang out somewhere like HN:

1) It gives you perspective - yes, you're not "the best" and neither am I. Learn to live with it.

2) It helps you get better. There's a saying that goes something like "if you're the smartest person in the room, leave - there's nothing you can learn there." While pithy and not entirely true, it tends to push you in the right direction by making you push yourself. Maybe you never thought some of those things were possible, but if others can do it, there's a good chance you can too (whether you want to or not is another question), and you can learn a lot on HN.

Apart from that, yeah, HN can be a time sink.

Re: Burnout

#127

Post by agumonkey »

petitev wrote: post #78
thewarrior wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your theory explains half the story , atleast in my case. Programming is getting increasingly competitive and so some of the anxiety is motivated by worries about my future job security. There has never been a better time to be born as a driven and prodigious individual. There are lots of young kids today leveraging technology produce music, code , draw and animate all through the power of the internet. Eg: Today I w…

I was one of those 12 year olds hanging out on usenet and slashdot about 15 years ago. I was exposed to technology, computational/mathematical language/jargon, the social pressures of continual growth and development, and so on, at a very young age, and it is most certainly a part of my core identity. I still burnt out. I was working on my PhD in computer security and it took me 2 years to recover from 8 years of str…

It's an issue when you're so into something that it consumes everything. Maybe also to escape other less favorable sides of your life (I mean mine here, but it seems social life was a burden for you too). The issue is that when this thing starts to crack too, then there's nothing else. Very heavy on your soul. That's why I read the 'do what you love' with a grain of salt now. And sometimes the idea of being lost in a context ([re]learning social life) that I disliked before feels almost like a massage of surprise which, even if it was one side that I might disliked before, feels a lot more worthy than being stuck in your narrowing world.

Re: Burnout

#128

Post by agumonkey »

EC1 wrote: post #3

> A few years ago I wanted to know everything. I spent the day at work thinking about what I would do when I got home and then spend the evening studying various things as hard as I could. I would stress over how there werent enought hours in the day to do what I wanted to do. There was rarely an hour in the day where I wasnt productive in some way. Oou, this resonates with me. For the past year I've been trying to o…

Knowledge is probably the best time compressor, except sometimes only experience can teach.

Re: Burnout

#129

Post by warrenmcwin »

EC1 wrote: post #8
napsterbr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking forward to that blog post

Mine was mainly about nutrition, and how I formed a super rigid and efficient routine. I have recordings of all my daily commutes, how many calories I ate every day, when, how much, every macronutrient, every coffee, beer, everything. Every movie, every "distwraction", every second I'm actually working. All of these things I've been working to decrease to as small as possible. I'll write it up ASAP.

please let me know! your "zoom" is bossy

Re: Burnout

#130

Post by dceddia »

This post really got me thinking, because I feel exactly the same way. The sequence of events described mirrors my own life so closely it borders on creepy.

I've been falling further and further into the trap of "optimizing" lots of little things. Spending 5 hours reading Amazon reviews to buy an $11 guitar tuner. Trying to leave the house at exactly the right time to arrive at my destination on the dot. And then, becoming very frustrated when traffic does not cooperate or someone on the road is being less efficient than I want them to be.

This post made me realize that thinking this way is almost like an addiction. The more I worry about how to squeeze productivity into a day or which tasks to work on to provide the most benefit (80/20!), the more anxious I feel. And it compounds. Because the next thought through my mind is "I can fix this anxious feeling by planning things out better!"

I'm beginning to think that maybe the best way off this train is to stop trying to optimize and control for variables entirely. It's not enough to pick-and-choose, because then you're just meta-optimizing ("I'll just figure out which of these to-do items is the MOST important!") Much akin to an alcoholic having just one drink, I think any sort of optimization thinking might be enough to get the cycle started again. Maybe the only way to tame it is to avoid it entirely.

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