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Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

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Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#121

Post by spenvo »

madaxe_again wrote: post #107
democracy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in Germany there was a very good (for Hitler) historical context that didn't need many of out-of-@ss facts (you can get from mass media these days). Anyway, J. Goebbels was the god of propaganda and still is I guess a role model of some political journalists even these days.

Hm, you say that, but Goebbels didn't have any tricks of his own - he learned from the masters - two Americans, Bernays and von Wiegand, who sharpened their skills in the 20's working for the Hearst press and convincing America to smoke.

This. Thank you. More people should know of these giants and that propaganda's origins (in theorycraft and implementation) are much closer to home than many Anglos realize.

Edward Bernays - his Wikipedia article is enlightening in and of itself. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#122

Post by vasilipupkin »

olsonjeffery wrote: post #49
vasilipupkin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, it is at least somewhat ironic that he is currently in Russia, given all the latest news out of that country. In fact, reading Greenwald's writings on recent events in Ukraine, I am having a hard time ignoring the curious pro-Putin slant in his writings.

I just did a survey of Greenwald's usual haunts (twitter, The Intercept, Guardian, etc) and haven't found anything mentioning Ukraine or Russia at all. Care to link?

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-i...

"Wasn’t it just 72 hours ago that the widespread, mainstream view in the west (not one that I shared) was that there was a profound moral obligation to stand up and support the brave and noble Ukrainian opposition forces as they fight to be liberated from the brutal and repressive regime imposed on them by Vladimir Putin’s puppet? When did it suddenly become shameful in those same circles to support those very same opposition forces?"

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#123

Post by BugBrother »

BugBrother wrote: post #95
mikeash wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or An Lushan. Makes Mao look like a rank amateur. If propaganda is necessary to modern atrocities, what changed to make it so?

I shocked the educated English guy next to me at work, when I gave a reference to "The harrowing of the north". Not exactly the most obscure part of English history, but still not well known. Control of information isn't new. The fun part will all the Chomsky thing is that in my native Sweden, you have totally different influences on the news media than USA. E.g. left wing extremists have a large space, political dis…

I should add -- what I meant was, the filtering of the news is very different but still filtered. E.g. pro-Israel stuff (Pallywood, torture between palestinian groups, antisemitism in the muslim world etc)often just doesn't get printed.

Sometimes you see a story at the BBC/NY Times. After it has grown to a headline item, it is grudgingly made news in Sweden a couple of days later.

I assume this is because the left wing extremists really care about Israel.

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#124

Post by trycatch »

1gor wrote: post #102

Did EFF complain about Ukraine government outlawing access to any Russian language news a few days ago? Correction : Above sentence is not correct. Not all Russian language news were outlawed. Instead, only Russian TV channels were banned in Ukraine a few days ago. This has caused OSCE to express concern. See the link below. Almost a half of Ukrainians speak Russian language. New Kiev government has banned national b…

What a great textbook example of whataboutism.

In Ukraine only 5 foreign TV channels were banned -- Vesti, Russia 24, ORT (First Channel World Network), RTR Planet, and NTV World. All of them were state-sponsored mouthpieces of Russian Goebbels-style propaganda, and it's in a country invaded by Russia. No wonder that these propaganda channels of foreign aggressors were banned.

In Russia Kremlin attacks its own legitimate independent from state press and opposition leaders. Russian independent TV channels were already destroyed long before (with exception of Dozhd that was attacked only recently), but yesterday Kremlin started to broadly use one more method in its fight against freedom of press -- Internet filters. And that what EFF article is about.

These situations have very little in common, and they very bundled together only to be used in the standard "but you are lynching negroes" argument.

> I don't necessarily agree with Russian government definition of 'extremist/radical', but their point is that above Russian sites have given their pages to neo-Nazis to call to armed struggle against the state.

Eh, neo-Nazis to call to armed struggle against the state? That's just bullshit. Good example, why Russian Goebbels-style propaganda is a problem.

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#125

Post by makomk »

choult wrote: post #101
SixSigma wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since UK population seems almost as complacent and docile as the American one That is really quite offensive. We have a culture of protest and resistance. What we have at the moment is a paradise of easy living. Despite the depressing lie of what the media will give you with "food banks and poverty" the standard of living for most Britons is really quite good, much better than the 1980s which saw major public polit…

I wouldn't call dependence on food banks a "depressing lie" - demand for food banks across the UK has tripled in the past year: http://www.trusselltrust.org/foodbank-numbers-triple

It also turns out some food banks were having to request international aid in order to cope over the winter. Our lovely Prime Minister, David Cameron, even complained about them not seeking his permission to do so. (He'd justified cutting welfare by arguing the food banks could cope.)

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#127

Post by dcc1 »

malkung wrote: post #105
higherpurpose wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymity in an uncensored Internet and in a democracy in general is just as important for the same reasons. Right now in Russia there are two kinds of people: those too afraid to speak or do anything, and those who get silenced. In such a situation there's no way to have a contrarian voice unless you're anonymous .

My impression from reading Russian blogs on LiveJournal is that there are two kinds of people in Russia right now: those extremely anti-Putin and those extremely pro-Putin, in about 50/50 proportion. No one is "too afraid" or "silenced".

Until one day those antiPutinities are mysteriously rounded up and sent to Siberia, heres a thought for you if Putin did that tomorrow what would the "West" do? the answer will be nothing, nada, zero

If I was in Russia now i would shut up and plan my exit strategy, as most of those who could afford did so.

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#128

Post by dcc1 »

SixSigma wrote: post #86
higherpurpose wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK is next. There's no doubt in my mind they will start blocking news sites, blogs and social media in the next mass protest (if there will be one anytime soon, since UK population seems almost as complacent and docile as the American one, which is just perfect for authoritarians).

> since UK population seems almost as complacent and docile as the American one That is really quite offensive. We have a culture of protest and resistance. What we have at the moment is a paradise of easy living. Despite the depressing lie of what the media will give you with "food banks and poverty" the standard of living for most Britons is really quite good, much better than the 1980s which saw major public polit…

There were huge protests before the Iraq war, it was invaded anyways.

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#129

Post by aldous »

beedogs wrote: post #69
spenvo wrote: post #3

The greatest instrument used in the societal tragedies of the last century has (undoubtedly) been state delivered propaganda. Japan (Empire of the Rising Sun), Nazi Germany, Maoism (and the following Cultural Revolution), in America: Red Scare (age of McCarthyism, ending as a consequence of JMc.'s untimely death), the Red Peril (the predecessor of the Red Scare) -- the list goes on. The efficacy of those at the top t…

> We are witnessing (again [0]) a complete lack of attempted narrative on the part of the US/UK mainstream press. There isn't the slightest reason to not give this story ample coverage -- it is anti-Putin/Russia (which, we can all agree is the current fetish in the media), and it is absolutely newsworthy -- even by their standards (they covered when the Russia Today anchors quit and spoke-out). SO WHAT GIVES? This is…

The UK mainstream press are reporting it: http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21599061-kremlins-belli...

Re: Russia Blocks Access to Major Independent News Sites

#130

Post by 1gor »

trycatch wrote: post #124
1gor wrote: post #102

Did EFF complain about Ukraine government outlawing access to any Russian language news a few days ago? Correction : Above sentence is not correct. Not all Russian language news were outlawed. Instead, only Russian TV channels were banned in Ukraine a few days ago. This has caused OSCE to express concern. See the link below. Almost a half of Ukrainians speak Russian language. New Kiev government has banned national b…

What a great textbook example of whataboutism. In Ukraine only 5 foreign TV channels were banned -- Vesti, Russia 24, ORT (First Channel World Network), RTR Planet, and NTV World. All of them were state-sponsored mouthpieces of Russian Goebbels-style propaganda, and it's in a country invaded by Russia. No wonder that these propaganda channels of foreign aggressors were banned. In Russia Kremlin attacks its own legiti…

I think your 'Goebbels this' and 'Goebbels that' arguments are amusing.

Thanks for confirming that 5 TV channels carrying alternative views are banned in Ukraine. That's no problem for you because you call them propaganda.

Some people disagree. A lot of Ukrainians Russian-speakers feel that their point of view is not represented in Ukrainian official media, and that Russian news provide some valuable alternative. After all, one of the first laws of new Kiev govt was an anti-Russian language law.

And then in a single breath you deny neo-Nazi issue as a bullshit. You obviously know that lenta.ru editor was fired allegedly for publishing a link to Ukrainian "Right Sector" content.

Next you of may want to deny that Svoboda and their paramilitary wing Right Sector are neo-nazis... I could refer to to European Union officials expressing concern about Svoboda's position in Kiev government, but I think my arguments will be lost on you.

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