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With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

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Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#121
post #34

Actually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windo…

Well i've to agree with you. It's not just in india in Sri lanka also the price of Windows is just too high for a normal person to afford. The price of a genuine Windows is about 40k. And the price difference of a laptop with Windows and a laptop without windows is around 15k I might be wrong but I don't know why so many people prefer Windows over linux. The unity gnome interface is pretty horrible imo. Plus i don't find good alternatives to my windows software for linux. There are alternatives but not as good as the ones i use on windows.

Also when I used Ubuntu i've update my whole system once in every 6 months. Also if i don't the latest softwares will not support my old ubuntu. After getting a new laptop I switched back to windows.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#122
post #119
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it's more reliable as a platform. Try to compile, let alone run, a program written for Linux 5 years ago on a distribution today. I compile and run 20 year old software, unmodified, on Windows 8, without any problems.

What? This usually works just fine. The only area where it doesn't is Gnome, who like making breaking changes. Quite a lot of the core tools (shellutils) are 20+ years old with only minor updates.

Yes, anything that only uses posix functions is less fragile, obviously. It's the user space libraries: UI, sound, notifications (for those last two, it's not just the API's that change, it's complete subsystems being pulled from under you), ...

Look, I'm not saying there is no Linux software that doesn't keep working, it's the overall time you spend over the lifetime of your software to keep up with updates in its dependencies. I don't see how anyone can reasonably argue that Windows isn't a whole lot better than Linux at that.

(I've been using Linux since 1998, I'm not new to this game)

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#123
post #91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

I think it is you who is trolling.

There is lot of crapware on Windows (even in default installation) which slows down system a lot. Antivirus, toolbars, keyloggers...

Also Linux (and nix) in general IS FASTER*. Especially the filesystem operations and multitasking. I use Java and the same build takes 2x time on Windows.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#124
Well this is ironic. Here is Bill Gates' letter to the Homebrew Club, dated February 3, 1976:

To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?

Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.

The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.

Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid?

Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.

What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.

I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software.

Bill Gates

General Partner, Micro-Soft

---

48 years later, it turns out that the following response highlighted the answer:

http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_...

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#125
post #81
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft's interest is to ram their touch interface down your throat so that you'd get used to it, and your next phone may possibly run Windows s/Microsoft/Canonical/ s/Windows/Ubuntu/

True. Except ... I'm not paying Ubuntu for my desktop OS; and I would for my server, except they're taking it where I don't want it to go, so I don't. And ... if you don't like Ubuntu's Unity (many people don't), Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment and ten other desktop environments are basically an apt-get away. Remind me, what was the command to get rid of The-UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and use the desktop instead?

> the command to get rid of The-UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and use the desktop instead

    wget http://torrents.linuxmint.com/torrents/linuxmint-16-cinnamon-dvd-64bit.iso.torrent

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#126
post #91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly. Yeah maybe for the consumers market, but that's already the case with Piracy anyway. But price is not the only issue, Windows is just horrible in so many ways that there's a number of people who will not come back to it even if it's 100% free. I keep Windows (7) as dual-boot on my desktop PC, where I run OpenSuse most of the tim…

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

Windows 7 crawls on my personal laptop and office desktop. Both have i5 processors and 4 GB of RAM. It takes several minutes to cold-boot or wake up from hibernation and load Chrome. Minutes of non-stop HD reading.

OTOH Linux Mint boots up faster and is way more responsive. It's actually faster to cold boot Mint than to wake up from hibernation on Windows.

It's anecdotal evidence, but for me Linux is very superior in this aspect.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#127
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

Windows 7 crawls on my personal laptop and office desktop. Both have i5 processors and 4 GB of RAM. It takes several minutes to cold-boot or wake up from hibernation and load Chrome. Minutes of non-stop HD reading. OTOH Linux Mint boots up faster and is way more responsive. It's actually faster to cold boot Mint than to wake up from hibernation on Windows. It's anecdotal evidence, but for me Linux is very superior in…

You must have some other issues then. I have the same setup and the system just flies, and I'm not even using a SSD. Boot and wake happen in about half a minute.

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#128
As an MacOS/Linux user (at home at least) I'll say that this is a welcome decision from Microsoft and that, regardless of the reason for which it was taken, is one that benefits all the consumers.

Could we for once set aside our opinions on MS and agree on that ?

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#129
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

Windows 7 crawls on my personal laptop and office desktop. Both have i5 processors and 4 GB of RAM. It takes several minutes to cold-boot or wake up from hibernation and load Chrome. Minutes of non-stop HD reading. OTOH Linux Mint boots up faster and is way more responsive. It's actually faster to cold boot Mint than to wake up from hibernation on Windows. It's anecdotal evidence, but for me Linux is very superior in…

Interesting to know about the difference. I never cared about boot time or wake up from hibernation. I always keep my mobile systems charged and in stand by when not used and I do a shutdown and cold boot maybe once a week (I know, waste of power and battery cycles and all :) ).

The cpus are irrelevant here so it might be a real filesystems perf difference. What do you use, ext4?

Re: With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way

#130
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? What's the hardware configuration? (Just to make things clear before what follows, I'm not a Windows fanboy and I use like 70% of the time Windows and the rest Ubuntu or Fedora. And I'd choose Linux over windows anytime. But the current state of Gnome and KDE is deplorable! ...both from a UX/I perspective and from a performance perspective. Actually the only DE that doesn't make me wanna push my fis…

Windows 7 crawls on my personal laptop and office desktop. Both have i5 processors and 4 GB of RAM. It takes several minutes to cold-boot or wake up from hibernation and load Chrome. Minutes of non-stop HD reading. OTOH Linux Mint boots up faster and is way more responsive. It's actually faster to cold boot Mint than to wake up from hibernation on Windows. It's anecdotal evidence, but for me Linux is very superior in…

4 GB of RAM costs about $35. My main PC at home has 16 GB of RAM, an i7-3770 and a 128 OCZ Vertex 4 SSD as the boot drive. Boot time from off to Windows 8.1 login screen is 6 seconds. That's not hibernation or sleep mode - that's from completely off.

The entire system cost $850. Is that an unreasonable price to pay for a desktop computer?

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