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Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

nytimes.com

121–130 of 144 posts

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#121

I'm still surprised Google was in on this considering they are developer friendly and are a "do-no-evil" company to a considerable extent. It was probably pressure from Jobs. Developers hurt by this should squeeze them for every penny possible.

It's not "do no evil". It's "don't be evil". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil

Except, today it's more like "Don't be evil*

* except where permitted by law and/or required for profit"

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#122
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ayn Randian titans took control of pretty much all power ... after many years of cries ... Teddy Roosevelt was able to strengthen the government ... People like Ayn Rand, who sadly came to the US just as the wheel was turning, didn't see the suffering that their romantic fantasies had brought about I'm confused - which side used the time machine?

I know this is HN, but maybe you should try to comprehend the message as it was obviously meant instead of choosing a possible interpretation that is illogical and then beating up on the interpretation you chose.

I got the original message (or at least the beginnings of one).

OP started off on the narrow path of understanding with balancing viewpoints, but then fell off by representing Rand as unconditional support for corporate domination, and went on to imply that her writings inspired these before-her-time titans to boot. So I pointed out the absurdity by expanding on it.

Besides what's really more interesting, analyzing caricatures of ideologies, or time machines?

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#123

The sad part is that even though this behavior is illegal, no one will actually go to jail for this. Companies will pay a token fine (like Pixar and Lucasfilm did), and it'll be business as usual, but this time no emails and no documentation. Unless a few people end up in jail for this, nothing will change.

You don't need people to go to jail. One solution is to replace the token fine with a fine large enough that it is cheaper to play by the rules.

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#124
post #35

This is bound to happen in any industry where supply of talent exceeds demand AND the powers-that-be can get away with collusion (either by virtue of being 'private' or simply being powerful and thus not give a shit). So what if one talented employee decided to quit one crappy company 'A' AND is unable to find work at the non-poach pact company 'B'? The place he quit will always find another willing sucker 'coz the s…

When supply exceeds demand, you do not need collusion, because there are unemployed workers who you can just hire at your target rate. If that is not enough money to entice them to work for you, then it would still not be enough even if you colluded.

What collusion allows is for the employers to maintain these low prices, even when demand exceed supply.

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#125
Serious question - will this do much? Seems like in the case of a win, the companies will give token amounts (9MM from Pixar for example) and the claimants (given there are 64000) will get a tiny little check.

Am I missing something? Is this worth pursuing for a prospective claimant?

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#126
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strike involves work stoppage, it's a very different tactic than mass resignation. In 1999, Major League Umpires Association (MLUA) were not able to legally go strike so they opted to use mass resignation as their negotiation strategy. It backfired, cost 22 umpires their careers and led to decertification of the union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Major_League_Umpires_Assoc...

I'm sticking with strike. "mass resignation and everyone loses their jobs" just doesn't have the same ring.

Ring or not, they're utterly different. Striking employees expect they will still have their jobs when the strike is over.

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#127

The sad part is that even though this behavior is illegal, no one will actually go to jail for this. Companies will pay a token fine (like Pixar and Lucasfilm did), and it'll be business as usual, but this time no emails and no documentation. Unless a few people end up in jail for this, nothing will change.

You don't need people to go to jail. One solution is to replace the token fine with a fine large enough that it is cheaper to play by the rules.

It's a civil case, the companies are being sued by employees for back-compensation, not by the government for shady practices.

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#128
The drive to maximize profit by those in the executive suite has caused them to do some seemingly clever (according to those in power) things but are in fact stupid in the long term.

A few years ago I overheard a new senior programmer argue with the cfo why developers should get 2 big monitors instead of a small 19". The cfo initially refused to go along. Of course some of it was due to his desire to keep cost down, as every good cfo should. But then he joked every dollar saved would mean more for his christmas bonus. we were a small/friendly company so I guess that's why he felt it was ok to joke about it. But I do believe his ultimate reason was to keep cost down at any 'cost' so that his bonus check would be bigger, as his performance is evaluated on how he manages the cash flow.

What the cfo didn't see was the productivity gain that could be gained by the programmers having bigger monitors. And these programmers were making near 6-figure salary. Their combined man hour cost was greater than his. But a cfo was making a decision to fatten his bonus check. Obviously this was not a good choice for the firm to make but it had been going on for awhile until the new senior programmer spoke up.

And I think this kind of logic in executive suite is probably common everywhere.

Lastly, I think it's about time these big tech companies add profit sharing ON top of the base salary as part of the compensation package. Why should an executive make SO much more than master and phds who are adding real value to the company?

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism is a messy system, but it does tend to self correct in the long run. That's quite a generalization; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You are right. My statement is a huge generalization and I will never be able to find hard supporting evidence in the true sense. However, my general sentiment stems from looking at the well being of the average person across human history. As humans shifted towards a system where people earned for themselves and kept what they earned, the typical human life improved at an astounding rate. On a much smaller scale, I'…

Actually, human society hasn't "shifted towards a system where people earned for themselves and kept what they earned". Throughout history there have been motions back and forth towards a amore socialist or a more capitalist system. In fact, I'm not sure you can say that we have such a system in any of the Western countries, right now. People don't just work for themselves: they pool a large chunk of their resources together to build common infrastructure necessary for business.

There was one time, however, when human society shifted from a communal hunter-gatherer society to one having private property, and that was the neolithic revolution. It is pretty much universally agreed that it made most people worse off. They had to work more (you're right about that; hunters-gatherers needed to work only 20 hours a week), got more sick, were malnourished, had to give birth to more children, and lived less (until modern technology, that is). It's unclear why this most important revolution in human history happened, but some theories suggest that it was brought about by the only people who benefitted from it: those who quickly became rich.

Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley

#130
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CIPD and other HR regulating bodies need to permanently disbar any member found guilty of this. and for HR directors the the Judge should name them as "not fit and proper persons to be a director" and probably the CEO on Chairman for good measure. Of course if the Hr director turned states evidence they might be let off with a slap on the wrist.

Wait, HR has the bar that you can be disbarred from? Thanks for expanding my horizons, I had no idea.

The CIPD is in the UK. The closest thing in the US is SHRM, which has the PHR/SPHR designations -- which are indeed often a requirement for senior HR positions (though I don't know that those designations have ever actually been revoked.)
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