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Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

en.community.dell.com

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Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#121

Post by joe_the_user »

jbk wrote: post #15

As the main developer of VLC, we know about this story since a long time, and this is just Dell putting crap components on their machine and blaming others. Any discussion was impossible with them. So let me explain a bit... In this case, VLC just uses the Windows APIs (DirectSound), and sends signed integers of 16bits (s16) to the Windows Kernel. VLC allows amplification of the INPUT above the sound that was decoded…

Back when I worked for a company that supplied crapware for preinstallation, I was given the impression that Dell and the other hardware supplies do lots of testing of their hardware/software configuration but in the most dumb-shit kind of way. The whole configuration is more or less treated like bucket chemistry - if you can get the desired combination to work, that's what you specify and exactly why it works or doesn't work won't be investigated.

The thing about this is that such behavior makes sense when the suppliers are integrators of the product of twenty or fifty or however many suppliers spread around the globe all relentless trying to cut costs (including cutting corners in implementing whatever spec their chips are supposed to satisfy). The integration itself naturally involves putting together the cheapest stuff and seeing-if/hoping-that it will work. So when you have such a fragile chain of elements, just blank-refusing to allow substitutes makes sense in this rather twisted view. Maybe Windows Media Player fails to call the parts of the API that are "bad" and not documented as bad.

Obviously, I'm not saying this approach is justified, simply that sometimes the irrationality is "sincere".

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#122

Post by slr555 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #28
jbk wrote: post #15

As the main developer of VLC, we know about this story since a long time, and this is just Dell putting crap components on their machine and blaming others. Any discussion was impossible with them. So let me explain a bit... In this case, VLC just uses the Windows APIs (DirectSound), and sends signed integers of 16bits (s16) to the Windows Kernel. VLC allows amplification of the INPUT above the sound that was decoded…

Low quality speakers and a poor hardware design. It isn't even a challenge to match amplifier output to speakers in such a way that the amplifier can't break the speaker. There are easily a dozen cheap ways to make this work properly that don't rely upon a probably non-existent WMP based solution. >VLC does not, and cannot modify the OUTPUT volume to destroy the speakers. That would be remarkable. >And as VLC is pres…

While it is likely true that most laptop speakers are crap, overdriving the power amp or any condition that causes clipping even at lower volumes can lead to cracked voicecoils which in turn produce distorted sound. In the old days we just used to push in on a driver and you could easily feel the broken voicecoil. clipping = death

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#123

Post by etjossem »

weland wrote: post #100
ferongr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analog limiter ICs (that I know of) limit the signal according to input voltage, something that does not catch this issue. Furthermore, limiting power at the audio codec level would require for the codec to have that feature and I don't know of audio codecs with that capability.

Cheap shit. Seriously, cheap shit. There are several ways to solve this, all of which boil down to "use more chips" or "use better speakers", thus increasing the price of already incredibly shitty speakers. Source: I'm involved in designing consumer electronic products and the only corners that don't get cut are those that, if cut, result in certifications not being granted and therefore in products you're unable to…

This is great information - and I'd love to know which speaker manufacturers you approve of. I'd rather own an expensive set of desktop speakers that lasts ten years than deal with Dell parts breaking all the time.

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#124

Post by Crito »

tokenadult wrote: post #68
dave809 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait, so you currently have an infected computer on your home network?

Secunia reports that I need to update VLC Media Player on a computer from which I recently removed a lot of malware (with the help of Malware Bytes, of which I have a purchased copy on that computer). I installed Secunia on the same computer, and it has not been able to do its update of VLC Media Player, nor have I been able to get an update of that to install by going directly to the VLC Media Player website and dow…

I'd suggest just nuking the entirety of that computer from orbit. "Uninstalling" malware is not worth the risk/effort.

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#125

Post by slacka »

humbledrone wrote: post #117
slacka wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dell may be using poor quality parts. VLC can also make the sound louder than any other media player that I've used while generating destructive square clipping. The problem is it's too easy to set the volume above 100%. I've done so with the mouse wheel. And I now have a $2000 out-of-warranty laptop with blown speakers. Fixes could include: * Not remember settings above 100% between sessions unless an advanced optio…

Audio is generally handed over to the OS via a format called Pulse Code Modulation. This is a series of audio "samples", which in the Windows case are individual signed 16-bit integers. Typically each second of audio is broken into about 44,100 of these integers. Each integer represents the sound amplitude during a particular 1/44,100th of a second, with a large negative number (-32,768) being a small amplitude and a…

I do blame Dell for my blown speakers. I also do like VLC's feature to boost audio in quiet movies. What I don't like is is the sound of digital clipping, how VLC makes it easy to clip, and how VLC remembers these terrible settings.

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#126

Post by humbledrone »

slacka wrote: post #125
humbledrone wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Audio is generally handed over to the OS via a format called Pulse Code Modulation. This is a series of audio "samples", which in the Windows case are individual signed 16-bit integers. Typically each second of audio is broken into about 44,100 of these integers. Each integer represents the sound amplitude during a particular 1/44,100th of a second, with a large negative number (-32,768) being a small amplitude and a…

I do blame Dell for my blown speakers. I also do like VLC's feature to boost audio in quiet movies. What I don't like is is the sound of digital clipping, how VLC makes it easy to clip, and how VLC remembers these terrible settings.

It's exactly as easy to decrease VLC's audio level back to normal as it is to increase it.

Anyway if you don't like it remembering the last audio level, go to Tools > Preferences > Audio, check the "Always reset audio start level to" box, and set it to 100%. Voila!

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#127

Post by bmoresbest55 »

This is insane. It's like saying LibreOffice can ruin your HDD, keyboard or some other BS that they can come up with. I have a Dell XPS M1530, it is five and a half years old and I remember the speakers blowing out in 2009. I got them covered under the warranty no problem. I know I am in the minority when saying that I like Dell and their support, I have had other problems and they have had no problem fixing them. This my start to change my mind...

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#128

Post by thelukester »

humbledrone wrote: post #126
slacka wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do blame Dell for my blown speakers. I also do like VLC's feature to boost audio in quiet movies. What I don't like is is the sound of digital clipping, how VLC makes it easy to clip, and how VLC remembers these terrible settings.

It's exactly as easy to decrease VLC's audio level back to normal as it is to increase it. Anyway if you don't like it remembering the last audio level, go to Tools > Preferences > Audio, check the "Always reset audio start level to" box, and set it to 100%. Voila!

No, VLC should remember the last audio level, just not when it's over 100%. If I leave it at 50%. On next restart it should be 50%. If I'm watching a movie and finish on 200%, on next restart it should be 100%.

Clipping sucks. VLC shouldn't remember these options unless the user changes an optional setting.

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#129

Post by ferongr »

humbledrone wrote: post #117
slacka wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dell may be using poor quality parts. VLC can also make the sound louder than any other media player that I've used while generating destructive square clipping. The problem is it's too easy to set the volume above 100%. I've done so with the mouse wheel. And I now have a $2000 out-of-warranty laptop with blown speakers. Fixes could include: * Not remember settings above 100% between sessions unless an advanced optio…

Audio is generally handed over to the OS via a format called Pulse Code Modulation. This is a series of audio "samples", which in the Windows case are individual signed 16-bit integers. Typically each second of audio is broken into about 44,100 of these integers. Each integer represents the sound amplitude during a particular 1/44,100th of a second, with a large negative number (-32,768) being a small amplitude and a…

While any software that accesses an audio interface using integer formats, VLC is to my knowledge the only average user-oriented program that can end up in such situations.

I would suggest VLC disables this feature for new installs and move it to an easily discoverable preference.

Or if they really care enough to allow their users to boost the volume levels of quiet movies to replace the gain multiplication with a proper dynamic range compressor activated when the volume goes above 100%.

Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty

#130

Post by lcrs »

sklivvz1971 wrote: post #98

In professional audio (and even amateur radio) one always puts speakers rated for 1.5x the nominal output of the amp. At least. This makes sure that whatever the input in the amp, the speakers are safe. If Dell doesn't build audio properly, how can they blame the users? They really have some gut...

I was always taught the opposite rule for PA amps - they should be rated higher than the speakers, as per http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dWILAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA118&dq=..., http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/power-amp-buying-guide/#mat... or similar. The reasoning being that a lower power amp would have to run flat out, and clip, which pushes a lot of energy into the HF drivers. Safer for the tweeters to have a more powerful amp which is not run into clipping, even if some peaks exceed the cabinet's rated power.

The VLC volume control has always terrified me, I wish it would have AGC or at least a soft limiter when pushed above 100%. I've seen people watch films with it cranked up to 200% and the system volume turned down to compensate :(

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