Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You • Hacker News Board

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#121

Post by eigenvector » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 1:22 AM UTC

velis_vel wrote: post #91

eigenvector wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposition to speed-limit cameras exposes the absurdity of most speed-limit laws: it's a law so bad many (most?) people are opposed to having it strictly enforced. If that's not a bad law, then I don't know what is.

> Opposition to speed-limit cameras exposes the absurdity of most speed-limit laws: it's a law so bad many (most?) people are opposed to having it strictly enforced. If that's not a bad law, then I don't know what is. Not all laws that are heavily disliked are bad laws, and not all laws that most people like are good ones.

True, but as someone who considers myself a safe and considerate driver, my opposition to strict enforcement of speed limits comes from this: when the police can easily enforce something numerical, they optimize for maximum revenue and devote nearly 100% of their traffic enforcement resources to speed traps.

This leaves all manner of unsafe drivers free to proceed with making illegal and unsafe maneuvers on the road without a snowball's chance in hell of ever being prosecuted for it. In most North American jurisdictions, what do you think the ratio of speeding tickets to tickets for all other traffic offenses is? Do you think someone doing 55 km/h in a 50 km/h zone is more dangerous that the person who always plays chicken with left-turn traffic by blazing through the tail end of yellow lights at intersections? The person who stops traffic to make an illegal left turn in the same place every day? The person who doesn't turn on their lights on the freeway driving 100 km/h at night when it snows?

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#122

Post by LukeShu » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 1:29 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #54

SeanLuke wrote: post #45

> There’s an argument to be made that fighting parking tickets just takes money from the community. There's no good argument along these lines. The social good of tickets is as a punitive measure to keep order. Tickets as a revenue mechanism is a social ill, full stop: it promotes the creation of bad law and corruption specifically designed to raise revenue. It's the same awfulness which results in speed traps, perma…

I have never quite understood the problem with speed traffic cameras. There's a problem if they're set too close to the speed limit for that road, but other than that they only catch people committing a criminal offence. The problem there is not the speed camera, it is either an inappropriate limit on a particular stretch of road or the speed limit law in total. In England speed cameras have gone through a few weird…

> I have never quite understood the problem with speed traffic cameras.

Here are reasons that (if true) make a lot of sense. It sounds like where you live, the laws around them are very reasonable; for many people that's not the case.

I don't have sources for these claims, I'm only repeating what I've heard/read, since you asked. I don't have real feelings about them either way, as we don't have them where I live.

- Red-light cameras actually increase accidents and injuries. More people slam on the breaks to avoid tripping them, instead of being slightly past the stop bar or entering when the light is yellow.

- When they are hidden (as many are), they do not effectively slow people down; they don't make the roads safer.

- As conditioning for future behavior, they are ineffective; studies show that when the punishment is after the misbehavior, the mind doesn't link the two together as well.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#123

Post by LukeShu » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 1:56 AM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #33

There needs to be a service just like this to fight towing companies. At least where I live they tow people by the truckload from lots that aren't even marked as required by law, and then hold the vehicles hostage for ransom, though so far as I'm aware no law authorizes the theft.

I was once in an accident, and my car needed to be towed. The tow guy was supposed to take my car to where I specified; I gave him the address of a mechanic, and watched him write it down. Instead, he takes it to his company's lot, and doesn't tell anyone (including the police, who thought my car was delivered to the mechanic). Fought it, and didn't have to pay their ransom, but it was troubling having no idea where my car was for a few days until we figured it out.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#124

Post by poulsbohemian » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 2:00 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #54

SeanLuke wrote: post #45

> There’s an argument to be made that fighting parking tickets just takes money from the community. There's no good argument along these lines. The social good of tickets is as a punitive measure to keep order. Tickets as a revenue mechanism is a social ill, full stop: it promotes the creation of bad law and corruption specifically designed to raise revenue. It's the same awfulness which results in speed traps, perma…

I have never quite understood the problem with speed traffic cameras. There's a problem if they're set too close to the speed limit for that road, but other than that they only catch people committing a criminal offence. The problem there is not the speed camera, it is either an inappropriate limit on a particular stretch of road or the speed limit law in total. In England speed cameras have gone through a few weird…

Your milage may vary depending on local laws, etc.

Disclaimer: I don't live in Seattle any longer so the situation I am about to describe may have changed in recent years (but I doubt it).

Story: There's a 5-way intersection near the University of Washington campus. The city put up cameras and started collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in fines. Problem: city ordinance stated something like any ticket resulting from a photo must come from a camera mounted at a 90 degree angle to the street. Notice the bit about it being a 5-way intersection? None of the roads came together at a 90 degree angle. Point was, the city continued to violate their own ordinance for years because that single intersection was a cash cow - the whole system was automated so the pictures were taken, cars identified, tickets mailed. THAT is why there is so much outrage about cameras in the US - it's the Man kicking us around.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#125

Post by jasomill » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 2:02 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #118

splat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist, though, sometimes the light will never turn. Most states treat bicycles identically to cars as far as red lights go. So, sorry, but I'm not going to wait at a red light for 45 minutes when it's freezing out for a car to show up and switch the light for me.

I'm skeptical that there are very many lights that would take more than a few minutes to change even without a car. Maybe cyclists should just be allowed to proceed through a red light since they are unlikely to hurt anyone besides themselves... But the rule does kinda make sense. If there are lights that rely on car sensors then obviously fixing that would be the right thing to do regardless of the law.

Car sensors aren't infallible, even for cars. Last week, after (presumably related) heavy snow, I found a "delayed signal" that wouldn't turn green for in the delayed direction for my Honda Civic.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#126

Post by jasomill » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 2:11 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

grecy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If red light cameras were there for safety, they would ding your driving record, not just be monetary fines. In lots of countries, they do.

In the US, they rarely do: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html

And rightly not, since many of these devices don't even provide photo identification of the driver.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#127

Post by monkeyspaw » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 2:44 AM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #80

lostlogin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all the above except the red light camera thing. Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely.

Most red-light cameras (at least in the US) are outsourced, and they lower the yellow light times, sometimes dangerously below any reasonable measure. http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/yellow-lights This in turn has actually increased accidents. http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies (i'm citing this mainly for the links, they are clearly a biased site).

San Diego recently removed their cameras because they found that they were put at intersections designed to maximize revenue, regardless of the pre-RLC safety.

They also found that accidents were increased.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Feb/01/san-diego-red-lig...

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#128

Post by Zigurd » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 3:02 AM UTC

drak0n1c wrote: post #50

talmand wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like something that the businesses of that street should be addressing with the local government to get that obvious problem resolved. Such as a loading zone that doesn't allow general parking during certain hours. Yes, it's not optimal but it's better than the ticket and causing traffic problems.

In Tokyo, trucks are only allowed to unload during the nighttime. The Japanese attitude toward government regulation (and staying up late for social obligations, etc) is quite different, for better or for worse.

I observed the same thing in Beijing. Daytime deliveries are handled by motor-trikes with a small flatbed on the back. Delivery trucks do not block streets in the daytime and appear to be largely, maybe completely banned during daytime.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#129

Post by Zigurd » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 3:05 AM UTC

Regarding the argument over whether parking ticket revenues are fairly obtained, stinkytaco and others claiming they are fair and legitimate should address the fact that everyone reading this understands what it means to get a ticket "fixed."

There would not be a word for it if that form of corruption wasn't endemic.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#130

Post by splat » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:01 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #118

splat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist, though, sometimes the light will never turn. Most states treat bicycles identically to cars as far as red lights go. So, sorry, but I'm not going to wait at a red light for 45 minutes when it's freezing out for a car to show up and switch the light for me.

I'm skeptical that there are very many lights that would take more than a few minutes to change even without a car. Maybe cyclists should just be allowed to proceed through a red light since they are unlikely to hurt anyone besides themselves... But the rule does kinda make sense. If there are lights that rely on car sensors then obviously fixing that would be the right thing to do regardless of the law.

At least on my ride home some of the lights default to remaining green along the major street unless a car trips the sensor on the intersecting street. Unless a car comes along it will never change.