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CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

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Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#121
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu, meanwhile, was willing to accept this tradeoff and distribute blessed Firefox, as Ubuntu also has trademarks that downstream modifiers (like Mint) need to remove. It would be nice if it was easy to remove said trademarks by something as simple as uninstalling a package, however unfortunately most marks are spread throughout the archive.

I thought there used to be such a package called firefox-branding that would turn Firefox into IceWeasel if removed?

At some point, yes, but the Ubuntu marks are still spread throughout dozens of different packages.

Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#122
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just hope they don't go the Fedora way on mangling, moving and changing everything around with every iteration. Why would they? CentOS is RHEL, they'll ship whatever RHEL ships.

RH may try to cripple CentOS, gather user statistics or advertise to promote more consumption of RHEL instead. "Keep your friends close, ..." because it's just business.

Any attempt to do so would be amazingly obvious to everyone and would be bad enough to force a fork. Redhat isn't stupid.

This smells like FUD.

Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#123
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was true in 1998. Cowardly companies that insisted on being able to pay support for anything they deployed were able to hand over $$$ to RedHat then tick the box of 'support'. However, as we all know, you get a Linux user/expert to fix the server, you don't call RedHat. Due to the success of Ubuntu you have user/experts in small to medium sized companies that have 'given Linux a go' and got some good experience…

From someone who's day job it is to manage thousands of Linux servers and has professionally worked with SLES, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, and a custom Linux from Scratch internal Linux distribution, you couldn't be farther from reality if you tried. """Due to the success of Ubuntu you have users/experts in small to medium sized companies that have 'given Linux a go' and got some good experience of Ubuntu""". I'm s…

well then how would you compare Redhat Enterprise with the Gentoo distribution and other more custom type distros? what exactly is the 'enterprise standard? It seems like Redhat enterprise is used in corporations because it has become a so called 'standard rather then being superior to other Linux choices. it took a long time to even get Linux into the corporate world because other Unix's were 'standards.

Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#124
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From someone who's day job it is to manage thousands of Linux servers and has professionally worked with SLES, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, and a custom Linux from Scratch internal Linux distribution, you couldn't be farther from reality if you tried. """Due to the success of Ubuntu you have users/experts in small to medium sized companies that have 'given Linux a go' and got some good experience of Ubuntu""". I'm s…

well then how would you compare Redhat Enterprise with the Gentoo distribution and other more custom type distros? what exactly is the 'enterprise standard? It seems like Redhat enterprise is used in corporations because it has become a so called 'standard rather then being superior to other Linux choices. it took a long time to even get Linux into the corporate world because other Unix's were 'standards.

Please forget enterprise. It is used and misconstrued until it means nothing. Lets talk about manageability. How do you (easily) manage 1000 gentoo (or arch linux) servers? You could have a distcc farm to build your base distro from stage1 (if you needed to) or just copy down the binary stage 3 builds and then bootstrap using binary ebuilds, but it is still a whole lot more difficult than a full binary distribution such as Redhat or Debian. Dealing with large clusters of servers, the tools that they include or write and then open source are what really blow me back.

Just a few in no particular order:

- the RHEL kernel. Redhat has consistently topped the list of Linux kernel contributors for years. The first google hits for it were http://lwn.net/Articles/451243/ and http://lwn.net/Articles/507986/, but that hasn't changed for a looooong time. They basically have as much of a monopoly on core Linux kernel develops as is possible in such a large complex project. Quite literally, there isn't a company in the world with more Linux development chops than Redhat. If you run critical applications on Redhat servers (think banking or wall street exchanges like NASDAQ or hospital systems that downtime could result in real problems), Redhat will be able to fix it if anyone can. I'm not pretending working with Redhat support is fun, but they are better equipped from an engineering standpoint than virtually anyone. The numbers back that up. Due to this, the Redhat kernel is an interesting hybrid of slightly older and battle tested stable with newer features backported. This is achieved because super often the people who write the features upstream tend to be redhat employees, so they do both. If I was asked to pick one thing that set RHEL / Redhat / CentOS apart, it would be the work that goes into their kernel for QA and testing / backporting. Look at a company like Canonical, they have a bit more than a dozen (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam) kernel developers. They simply can't compete on engineering resources due to their limited number of engineers. As a result (and a smart business move) the are more consumers of patches from upstream than producers. Also, look at the lwn "who wrote linux X.YY" articles. You'll rarely and almost never find Canonical on that list except for when they got the apparmor patches merged (props to them!).

- sssd[1] - a solid implementation that essentially unifies pam ldap/kerberos, pam_ccreds/nslcd/nscd/pam_access all in one very nice implementation. This makes (for instance) joining your Linux nodes into an Active Directory domain (without using commercial software from likewise or some other cruddy vendor) just work out of the box. It also makes single-sign-on and migration from standard ldap to kerberized ldap (a very hard problem) super duper simple.

- cobbler[2] (and now the foreman[3]) - These tools along with redhat's kickstart make pxebooting a cluster of 500 new servers very trivial to turn into 500 new ready to use for production servers. Gentoo has nothing I'm aware of that allows installing completely automated like kickstart, but someone please enlighten me via a reply if this is incorrect. Michael Dehaan (big HN commenter and wrote the ansible config management tool) wrote cobbler.

- abrtd[4] / faf[5] - abrtd will collect crash reports (segfaults, coredumps, python tracebacks, kernel oopses, etc) and parse the info / store the relevant bits locally or forward on to a faf server. It will allow you to things (for example) like figuring out easily every single system that is reporting a specific kernel oops, which is then tracked down to a specific type of hardware and kernel combination. Sure there are tools like crash and netdump, but abrtd is simply a very modular management tool ontop of all of those things. The public fedora project faf is located at: https://retrace.fedoraproject.org/faf/problems/hot/. faf is good stuff

- freeipa[6] - Honestly up until this project, Linux never had anything that competed with Microsoft's Active Directory for a turn key easy to setup and manage kerberized ldap user and group / policy management product. IPA changes that and integrates very well with Microsoft AD through a kerberos level trust. sssd (above) is the ipa client. It allows true single sign on between Linux and Windows clients, something that is still elusive for most companies.

- standards. Linux's biggest strength is also it's achilles heel. Not having package standards or kernel standards (or stability) prevented a lot of companies from using Linux or certifying their software for Linux early on. Being very conservative in what they will support and supporting it for very long periods of time allowed companies like Oracle (as a horrible example) to port their database to Linux and certify that things are good. Try getting big complex commercial pieces of software working on a build your own distro. It is possible, but is buyer beware. Redhat made this their business model and has done a great job of it. At this point, Debian has also done a wonderful job at standardizing things and being consistent, albeit different, from Redhat.

TL;DNR: Redhat is building tools that make Linux easier to deploy and easier to manage in large "enterprise" environments. These tools make it equally easy to manage in smaller environments. No single entity has pushed Linux further in the "enterprise" than Redhat. I could list plenty more, but this hopefully answers your question fully. If not, click through to my profile, find my resume, and from it shoot me an email.

[1] https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/

[2] http://www.cobblerd.org

[3] http://theforeman.org

[4] https://github.com/abrt/abrt/wiki/ABRT-Project

[5] https://github.com/abrt/faf

[6] http://www.freeipa.org/page/Main_Page

Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe RedHat would get a lot more followers, and a lot more support money if they did two things: - have support contracts that make sense, and trust their customers. Let their customers choose which server they want to put under contract etc... - have more software in their default repo (like, I don't know... Ubuntu) They managed to corner the market for pay-for software (to a certain extent, Suse has managed to…

Every time a market collapse is hanging over the finance world, they know their customers will do what a prior employer does/did: put support on 1 of 1000 servers. It's sad, but this wasn't at a .com rev3 company, this was an old-school hedge fund with billions under management. IT support is just something that gets neglected if there isn't a contract that is enforceable. Clearly the company could afford a thousand…

People do that today.

I know of a few companies which tried to pay for 24 hour support for prod servers, email for QA servers and no support for dev servers, and RedHat insisted on making them pay for anything running RedHat, all or nothing... Companies switched to CentOS and SL, and bought contract for one RedHat server.

Re: CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat

#126
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a couple of days ago I was doing an upgrade from 6.4 to 6.5 and yum died in the middle; fixing that was quite hellish as rpm somehow decided that multiple conflicting versions of several packages were installed at once (eg glibc v131 and v137), and it wouldn't do anything until that was fixed (it wouldn't even attempt to fix the problem until it was fixed... "yum-complete-transaction" just complained about thing…

package-cleanup --cleandupes

I did that, it bailed out because it wanted dependency problems to be fixed first (and the dependency fixer bailed out because it wanted the dupe problems to be fixed first)
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