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Being alone

jessepollak.me

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Re: Being alone

#121

Post by phillmv »

roflc0ptic wrote: post #107
mindslight wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an original sin you can never be absolved of and are supposed to continually prostrate yourself for. Of course there are people in situations for which the advice in this article is a non-starter. But does that preface actually specifically address them, or is it just a cargo-cult disclaimer to keep the responses from being derailed by feel-good plighties? And how should one feel if they are so "privileg…

Yeah, exactly. I'm deeply sympathetic towards lefty activists and activism, but I just cannot get over how much privilege "politics" [sic] sounds like original sin. 1. Being racist is bad 2. All white people are racist (by virtue of being born into a racist culture) Ergo... all white people are bad. And I've seen several facebook posts by people of color that say things like "I'M DONE WITH WHITE PEOPLE." And I'm even…

>But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay?

So, the premise that this begins with starts not with the notion that you're a bad person who doesn't deserve to live but more from the notion, popular in lefty circles, that your opinion about the plight of less privileged people doesn't matter precisely because you have no experience in the subject matter.

There is a legitimate criticism that people have swung too far into these kinds of identity politics, and that they're ultimately more divisive than not. Ultimately, they prevent the formation of a communal polity that can work together on shared incentives rather than splintering into a fractal set of identities.

It gets trickier because a lot of white dudes parse this as a personal attack and thus get (appropriately, from their perspective) upset. I'm not personally, consciously responsible! What did I do wrong?

The key thing to keep in mind is, if you're not a white dude, you've spent most of modern history totally shut out of the conversation. It's extremely infuriating! And having white dudes complaining that they're not being listened to - with all the attending historical baggage that claim carries - only compounds that frustration. Which is why people lash out.

We're still in a state of flux; things will settle down one way or another. But I think it's worth keeping in mind the difference between "All white people are racist" and "We're really tired of only listening to the opinions of white people". Usually, people mean the latter and not the former.

Re: Being alone

#122

Post by cobrausn »

shinratdr wrote: post #73
Stealth- wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades a…

> the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field tri…

Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing.

Except for that it's discrimination based on need and not race.

Re: Being alone

#123

Post by sp332 »

thwest wrote: post #119
sp332 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you may not be, but many people are.

Show me where people are advocating anti-white and anti-cis policies.

If you’re straight, consider a commitment ceremony but don’t get married until all people can share in that legal right should they so choose.

If you’re a white person with wealth and children, choose to invest in and send your children to a local, public, neighborhood school or at least a private school with a strong commitment to diversity and inclusion rather than a lily-white private place with connections to the Ivy League.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2012/12/how-to-talk-to-someone-a...

Re: Being alone

#124

Post by cobrausn »

phillmv wrote: post #121
roflc0ptic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. I'm deeply sympathetic towards lefty activists and activism, but I just cannot get over how much privilege "politics" [sic] sounds like original sin. 1. Being racist is bad 2. All white people are racist (by virtue of being born into a racist culture) Ergo... all white people are bad. And I've seen several facebook posts by people of color that say things like "I'M DONE WITH WHITE PEOPLE." And I'm even…

>But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay? So, the premise that this begins with starts not with the notion that you're a bad person who doesn't deserve to live but more from the notion, popular in lefty circles, that your opinion about the plight of less privileged people doesn't matter precisely because you have no experience in the subject mat…

The key thing to keep in mind is, if you're not a white dude, you've spent most of modern history totally shut out of the conversation.

The key thing you are forgetting when you say 'shut up, straight white boy'[1] is that throughout most of history (and still today), even if you were a white male, you were statistically speaking poor and fairly unimportant, and also shut out of 'the conversation'.

There is a fairly significant difference between accepting additional input from those with a different perspective (inclusive) and excluding input because of perceived privilege based on race/gender/etc (exclusive).

[1] I'm adapting this from the title of a feminist blog post critical of the term 'privilege' as a useful rhetorical device, which curiously cannot be found (404), don't take it literally...

Re: Being alone

#125

Post by gracegarey »

nowarninglabel wrote: post #66

As a socially awkward individual, I couldn't think of a better place to get out in public then at Watsi / Teespring / Goldbelly HQ. Chase, Netta, Grace, and the whole Watsi team are super awesome people and passionate about what they are doing. At their office warming party they had an office naming contest which got people talking/connected, have to wonder what ended up being the winning name?

My favorite was Noplu (North of Plum) but the debate rages on :)

Re: Being alone

#126

Post by shinratdr »

cobrausn wrote: post #122
shinratdr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field tri…

Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing. Except for that it's discrimination based on need and not race.

Sometimes race correlates to need. In the case of First Nations peoples in Canada, it very much does.

Re: Being alone

#128

Post by pearjuice »

I come to HN for intriguing, inspiring and educative news/items followed by proper discussion. For the life of me I fail to comprehend why this diary-blog-post managed to get, at the time of writing, 144 points and still not have a [dead] tag prepended to it. This is Hacker News. Not Tumblr-privilege-core. The only thing related to HN I could find in that entire article was Watsi. And then even that was taken downhill by appending "party" to it.

Re: Being alone

#129

Post by thwest »

sp332 wrote: post #123
thwest wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me where people are advocating anti-white and anti-cis policies.

If you’re straight, consider a commitment ceremony but don’t get married until all people can share in that legal right should they so choose. If you’re a white person with wealth and children, choose to invest in and send your children to a local, public, neighborhood school or at least a private school with a strong commitment to diversity and inclusion rather than a lily-white private place with connections to the…

How does asking people to consider choices "make things harder or worse for those with privilege"?

Re: Being alone

#130

Post by tomp »

britta wrote: post #79
tomp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain a bit more, why exactly does this advice "just get out there" not apply to anyone who isn't either white, heterosexual, cis or male?

There are many potential examples, but I'll explain an example from my own experience. I'm a woman, and I've enjoyed tagging along with my male friend who is very friendly at conferences and similar events, talking to all kinds of strangers and having good conversations. That looked like a fun skill to have, so I tried doing it on my own - introducing myself to other attendees, asking about their work and projects, e…

And your conclusion is that if a man did the same (copying a woman's style of talking to other women, and going around introducing himself to (mostly) women attendees), the outcome would be different? If not, it's not really a case of male privilege.
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