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The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

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Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#121

Post by zanny »

nahname wrote: post #110
simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

Most game makers are targeting consoles, which just went through a longer than usual shelf life. With the new ones coming online, we will see more PC upgrades from gamers.

Also resolution stopped at 1080p for a decade. Now that 4k is happening, there is an easy path to performance for gpu manufacturers.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#122

Post by Zak »

I've been prioritizing human interface over raw power for some time with my laptop (more or less my only PC). It's semi-homebuilt - a Thinkpad T61 in a T60 chassis. I would rather work on this machine than any new one.

The CPU is slow by current standards, but a Core2Duo isn't slower than the low-clock CPUs in many Ultrabooks. The 3 hour battery life could be better, but I can swap batteries and many new laptops can't. The GPU sucks, but I don't play many games anyway. DDR2 is pricey these days, but I already have my 8gb. SATA2 is slower than SATA3, but I'm still regularly amazed at how much faster my SSD is than spinning rust. It's a little heavy, but really, I can lift six pounds with one finger.

So the bad parts aren't so bad, but nothing new matches the good parts. The screen is IPS, matte, 15" and 1600x1200. Aside from huge monster gaming laptops, nothing has a screen this tall (in inches, not pixels) anymore. I can have two normal-width source files or other text content side by side comfortably. The keyboard is the classic Thinkpad keyboard with 7 rows and what many people find to be the best feel on a laptop. The trackpoint has physical buttons, which are missing from the latest generation of Thinkpads. There's an LED in the screen bezel so I can view papers, credit cards and such that I might copy information from in the dark, also missing from the latest Thinkpads.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#124

Post by johngalt »

simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

We would be better off steering into the skid. History has plenty of examples of people who've tried to hang onto the old ways 'because that's how I learned it'.

The way forward isn't to try and keep cheap PCs viable for creativity's sake, but to ensure that creative desires are being met on the newer devices. Would I have learned memory management and dual booting if I'd had a tablet instead of a 386? Probably not. But now that same money buys a high end tablet and a pile of hours for an EC2 micro instance.

Would I still be me? No, I would be even better. All those weeks wasted fighting with modem racks for my BBS I'd gladly trade for weeks spent on a Nexus 10 and a linode.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#125

Post by orf »

simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

I agree, I brought a high-end Dell 2.5 years ago and it was starting to feel like upgrade time (sluggish performance etc) a few months ago. I then stuck in a 240gb SSD and its faster than it ever was, even when I first got it.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#126

Post by malyk »

I'm seeing the same thing with my iPhone. I Have a 4S and while I like what the 5s brings I'm just not sure it's worth upgrading now. There is just starting to be the very hint of slowness in some things on the 4S, but it isn't anything like when I went from the 3G to the 4s. That was a huge upgrade. Now it just doesn't feel necessary to buy the next thing on the same schedule.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#127

Post by aryastark »

gohrt wrote: post #93
usaphp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~$1,000 sounds quite cheap for a gaming machine which can still run any modern game at highest settings. I remember I built mine at about the same time (2010) for $2500, top notch video card, fastest cpu, lots of ram, but its 2013 now and I can not say that it runs any modern game at highest settings.

Modern games are gated by GPU, not CPU. Except a rare one like Dwarf Fortress.

It's not even GPU today. RAM is pretty much the bottleneck for everything. CPUs have been so much faster than RAM for so long now that they have to keep doing more and more tricks just to keep utilization up at all. With gaming, it's always texture memory and transferring from RAM to the video card that's expensive.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#128

Post by marcosdumay »

padobson wrote: post #21

I don't know which conclusion I had about this was more useful: 1) I don't need to buy a new PC every two years anymore 2) Someone should make a tablet with slots so it can be upgraded like a PC

We are going in the oposite direction of #2 for at least a decade. Nowadays a motherboard has almost all the periferals you'll need in a typical PC, and at the ARM world (that is more flexible) we are getting into the periferal-less single chip CPU that has only a power supply and I/O pins for display, USB and network.

That's a natural step because connectors are expensive, power hungry and bulk. As computers get inexpensive, upgrading makes less sense, so it makes less sense to pay more for an upgreadable system.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#129

Post by Semaphor »

JVIDEL wrote: post #53
fiatmoney wrote: post #23

"For what" is the obvious question. Web development with a remote testing environment, office applications, email, web browsing - sure, a Core 2 Duo is more than good enough if your software environment is kept in order. Audio / video / photoshop, gaming, developing software that does math, data analysis - you can never get fast enough. The limiting factor is if your computer's feedback loop is tighter than your brai…

In what planet? I'm not even going to use myself as an example because I do other heavy stuff with my PC, I'm going to use my non-tech friends: one of them got a new laptop with 8GB of RAM, why? because she was complaining about webapps using too much memory and slowing down her previous system. Regular users don't know or care about memory management, they don't even close old windows or tabs, its about convenience.…

A bit over a year ago RAM was cheap enough you could just stock up. I have 16GB of RAM and paid 80€ or something for it. I keep stuff in tabs or windows now I used to stick in bookmarks. Right now I have Visual Studio open after work as I want to do a deployment in ~3h. No need to close and re-open the rather big project later.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#130

Post by Zak »

simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just plain hard to be disappointed with anything new.

That's exactly what I'm disappointed with on everything new. The Thinkpad T60p, from 2006 remains superior on both points to everything new from my point of view.

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