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Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

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Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#121

Post by abalone »

crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

The article is misleading. It is not a choice between a fingerprint or a PIN.

Touch ID requires both a fingerprint and a PIN. If the phone hasn't been unlocked in 48 hours or has been rebooted, you have to enter the PIN. This would probably protect your 5th amendment rights in the case of going to court (since it would probably take >48 hours).

Touch ID is there to make PINs more widely adopted, by minimizing the inconvenience of entering a PIN every single time. That's a great boost for security.

Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/09/11/apple-new-iphone-not-...

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#122

Post by benologist »

DanBC wrote: post #119
benologist wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they don't catch many people is because they're fingerprinting tourists and most likely first time visitors to the US. I'm surprised they caught anyone at all.

They're fingerprinting everyone who isn't a US citizen who enters the US. Repeat visitors are fingerprinted on each visit.

Yes I know, I've been fingerprinted a dozen or so times. I don't know statistics but I would guess the majority are first-time or just connecting which still classes as entering the US.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#123

Post by unimpressive »

adamconroy wrote: post #112
unimpressive wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Turns out they were right. What do you think they've been vindicated about exactly?

Maybe our wires are crossed but I was hinting that the critics have been vindicated not Microsoft.

Yes, that's what I was asking about. Are you referring to the NSA leaks? Because I think there's a lot more to criticize about Microsoft than that.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#124

Post by tlrobinson »

abalone wrote: post #121
crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

The article is misleading. It is not a choice between a fingerprint or a PIN. Touch ID requires both a fingerprint and a PIN. If the phone hasn't been unlocked in 48 hours or has been rebooted, you have to enter the PIN. This would probably protect your 5th amendment rights in the case of going to court (since it would probably take >48 hours). Touch ID is there to make PINs more widely adopted, by minimizing the inc…

Excellent point, though once police departments realize this fact, they may force arrested people to immediately unlock their phones, or use their fingerprints, which they already collect, to do it.

It would be nice if you could adjust the 48 hour timeout.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#125

Post by hexley »

kevinwallace wrote: post #109
jonknee wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when the data erases after a low number of misses.

The data doesn't erase itself. The phone, in its original state, erases its copy of the data, but that doesn't help if you're operating with (a) a copy of the data, or (b) a modified phone, which is likely given an adversary that doesn't find cracking 10,000 PIN combinations to be a significant hurdle. In particular, tools automating (b) already exist: http://gizmodo.com/5896992/the-xry-cracking-tool-is-unimpres...

Actually, the data is encrypted firstly with a per-device key that is unique to the phone and unable to be accessed directly (unless you want to go decapping chips), then additionally with a hash of your pin or password. A copy of the data is useless unless you can get to it in an already unlocked state. An erase firstly deletes the encryption key entirely then begins a secure erase in the background.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#126

Post by A1kmm »

Phone locks are not designed to keep a well resourced attackers out, they are to keep nosy people from casually accessing your data.

Competent authorities will not access your phone through the phone interface, they will just image the data on it. Unless you encrypt data on your device with a strong key, they will get all your data anyway.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#127

Post by Terretta »

minor_nitwit wrote: post #106
crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

I've commented on how it's less safe - blah blah blah. But I think you're right. This is no bigger deal than the face unlock option in Android, which is coincidentally also very insecure. The difference is, in the case of Android, nobody inflated the security implications, it was simply a neat trick to open your phone, that smart people won't use.

One of these, the identity hash data could be used for tracking faces on live CCTV surveillance, the other, not.

So which one is causing these threads?

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#129

Post by rsynnott »

crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

> Why on earth are people getting worked up about this?

It's an Apple release. The tech press is _required_ to act like any Apple release contains at least one thing that is the second coming of Mecha-Hitler; it's the law.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#130

Post by rsynnott »

briandear wrote: post #118
adamconroy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem might be that you are secretly 'forced' to use it. What if NSA / govt tells apple to start harvesting all fingerprints of all users

And what would they do with that data?

They would use it to cast dreadful spells which would make peoples' tinfoil hats melt.
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