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Map of America's Racial Segregation

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Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#121

Post by newnewnew »

icecreampain wrote: post #3
simias wrote: post #2

I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we just don't like/can't compile that kind of racial data. I would be more interested in counter-examples: cities were the melting pot is the rule.

Making race maps in Europe would get you shot, your family hanged and all your friends deemed social outcasts forever. For example: the Swedish crime prevention board (BRÅ) no longer publish crime statistics containing ethnic background information. They stopped a few years ago (2006) when the PC media found out that africans and arabs were way, way over-represented in all crime categories. This is due to political c…

Steve Sailer found out that American schools are really good when you break down test scores by race[1]. For example, the white American population does better on international tests than most European populations, American hispanics do better than all Latin American countries, and etc. Unfortunately, the original article is not available because VDARE is having a fundraiser[2], but why not drop a dollar to keep Steve in business?

Since then, US government has stopped publishing PISA test scores by race. It's embarrassing for people on all sides of the aisle, including right-wing school reform movements that need the purported terribleness of American schools for their political momentum.

[1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/TRFeGl7ocuI/AAAAAAAAGz...

[2] http://www.vdare.com/articles/pisa-scores-show-demography-is...

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#122

Post by newnewnew »

rayiner wrote: post #22
simias wrote: post #2

I feel like you would get a similar result if you did a map of Paris or other big european cities, I'm not sure it's an american thing. I think over here we just don't like/can't compile that kind of racial data. I would be more interested in counter-examples: cities were the melting pot is the rule.

The overriding trend in American cities is that whites will not live in predominantly black or hispanic neighborhoods.[1] But the reverse is generally not true. So you see much less segregation in predominantly white cities like Portland than in cities like Chicago that have an even mix of races, which have less segregation than predominantly black cities like Detroit or New Orleans. As far as I can tell, most Europe…

> You can argue about whether this is racism or classism.

Or it could just be avoiding high-crime areas. Given the vastly different propensities of people of various races to commit crime, avoiding crime tends to make you look racist[1]

[1] http://www.ronunz.org/2013/07/20/race-and-crime-in-america/

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#123

Post by eevee »

hedgew wrote: post #25

Is segregation really the appropriate word here? Separation of the races is coded into our genes and happens naturally without any malicious intent too. It's not much different from the fact that all of us prefer to surround ourselves with people who are similar to ourselves, usually in terms of thinking, hobbies, and interests. Physical attributes influence us as well, whether it's bikers and leather jackets or punk…

Unless it's the norm for people to cross-reference the races of all their potential neighbors before deciding on a house, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that the issue is a little more complicated than who sits with who at lunch.

A much more likely factor is your socioeconomic status (which is, granted, also related to your career), and race/class are not at all proportional in the US.

> People in Norway are more free to pursue what makes _them_ happy.

And why does engineering make men happy but women not? Put another way: are there women who are being made _unhappy_ with engineering? And vice versa for nursing? Is that not worth speculating upon and addressing, rather than taking for granted that the penis is the part of the brain responsible for enjoying math?

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#124

Post by flexie »

spodek wrote: post #9

Here is the actual map, which you can zoom into, scroll, pan, explore your neighborhood, etc. -- http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html EDIT: Exploring, I see the island I live on -- Manhattan -- has the four main dot colors well represented, though mainly in blocks. The main mixing is between whites and Asians and between blacks and Hispanics. Notably parts of the Upper West Side, East Village/Lower…

Notice how there is often a latino or Asian neighborhood between the white and african american neighborhoods.

I'd like to see figures on racial division in the labor market. When I lived in NYC I couldn't help noticing how I would rarely see white people working in stores, on the streets or driving cabs (and if they were white they would be immigrants). Diners were mostly staffed with Greek people, except the guys who poured water and cleaned up after you - they would be latino. White New Yorkers mainly work in offices. Waiters in restaurants or bars are often white as well.

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#125

Post by rayiner »

rmc wrote: post #120
rayiner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly a fair point, but would you say that there are axes of diversity in European cities that have properties similar to racial delineations in the U.S.? That is to say, political tensions arising from economic disparity as well as strong cohesion within distinct social groups? I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of European social conflict, but I don't imagine there is a lot of catholic versus protest…

And running with your example, what do you imagine would have been the political situation in the U.K. if say London had consisted of 60-70% Irish nationalist Catholics in 1985? Well Ireland was 95% Catholic, and had a terrorist guerilla war and seceeded from the UK in 1922. This often happens in Europe when there are ethnic disagrements (latest example: Kosovo). Or there's policial independence movements (e.g. Catal…

What's the magnitude of the discrimination within categories of whites? Do white British make twice as much as white ethnic Polish? Do white British barely ever associate with white ethnic Polish in private gatherings? Do white British cross the street when passing by a white ethnic Polish at night? Are their schools that are 90% white polish?

Do the info pages for individual schools in London prominently display "country of origin" information, so white British can ensure they don't accidentally send their kids to a school that's 90% white ethnic Polish? http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?SchoolId=609951.

Or are Poles in London seen like say Jews in the U.S.? Sometimes the butt of a mean joke or nasty comment, but otherwise not situated fundamentally different from the majority group?

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#126

Post by newnewnew »

throwaway_a wrote: post #92
btrautsc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a white male who grew up in the south, thank you for writing this intelligently and highlighting these issues. its not a race problem, its a cultural problem. Political Correctness prevents us from collectively helping the predominantly black victims of a large sub-culture of black America that celebrates crime, dehumanizes women and gays, views educational/career achievement as betrayal of black identity, and tol…

Here comes my throwaway account for opinions that I suspect sway _WAY OUT_ of HN's comfort zone but needs to be said. I think the term "black culture" is in itself a problem because it blames the victim. The term "culture" makes people think it's something that a group of people chose for themselves. "black culture" isn't the same as "asian culture" or "irish culture". This thing we're all calling "black culture" is…

Africa ain't exactly paradise, either.

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#127

Post by newnewnew »

JPKab wrote: post #34
noir_lord wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go too far from reality with political correctness but you can go just as far in the other direction with the "lack" of political correctness. The US has a much higher tolerance for what in Europe would be considered pretty blatant racism. I think that Political Correctness for the most part says we should treat everyone equally whether we like them or not which is the rational approach as I'm sure there are…

Perhaps you and I have a different idea on what "Political Correctness" actually is. My view is that many mistake Scientifically Correct from Politically Correct. It is Scientifically Correct to say that there is very little difference, genetically, between Europeans, Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, etc. It also happens to be Politically Correct. However, it is also Scientifically Correct to say that there are hug…

There's enough of a genetic difference between subpopulations that if you spit in a cup and ship it to 23andMe, they can tell you where your ancestors came from. Also, there's enough of a difference so that if your ancestors aren't from West Africa, you'll never win an Olympic medal in sprinting[1].

FWIW, people that study population genetics sound shockingly racist. Science is science, whether or not we want it to be.

[1] http://m.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/the-u...

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#128

Post by rmc »

rayiner wrote: post #125
rmc wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And running with your example, what do you imagine would have been the political situation in the U.K. if say London had consisted of 60-70% Irish nationalist Catholics in 1985? Well Ireland was 95% Catholic, and had a terrorist guerilla war and seceeded from the UK in 1922. This often happens in Europe when there are ethnic disagrements (latest example: Kosovo). Or there's policial independence movements (e.g. Catal…

What's the magnitude of the discrimination within categories of whites? Do white British make twice as much as white ethnic Polish? Do white British barely ever associate with white ethnic Polish in private gatherings? Do white British cross the street when passing by a white ethnic Polish at night? Are their schools that are 90% white polish? Do the info pages for individual schools in London prominently display "co…

Eek, that seems pretty racist. Though in Northern Ireland they do separate the schools (they've been trying to stop that), and there is quotas for public jobs (though mostly because they had a long history of having a quota of 0 for one side).

Remember, Europe and the USA are different and have had different histories. Europe has had a slightly different history of racial discrimination than USA. The have literally been wars.

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#129

Post by ajross »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #107
SiVal wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a "map of America's racial distribution ". Calling it a "map of America's racial segregation " means someone is pushing a political agenda. Calling it a map of racial integration would be just as accurate but probably didn't support the right narrative. As a map of distribution , you would expect significant clustering from randomness alone. We've all seen the "which of these dot patterns is actually the…

>Yes, this is a "map of America's racial distribution". Calling it a "map of America's racial segregation" means someone is pushing a political agenda. isn't racial segregation is a very significantly skewed racial distribution? >This doesn't mean that there is no race-based component in deciding where to live. It just means that, as the Schelling model demonstrates, you can't tell how much there is by looking at how…

The English language word "segregation" means something like "a multi-modal spacial distribution".

But the most common (and very well understood by anyone educated here) use of that word is to describe the regime of laws in the US south designed to prevent racial interraction and preserve white priviledge.

Basically: it means something very similar to "apartheid", which is another word that probably had a neutral meaning once but now can only mean one thing.

Re: Map of America's Racial Segregation

#130

Post by chrischen »

twic wrote: post #50
WA wrote: post #28

I watched once a lecture on Coursera about Schelling's model of segregation, which I found extremely insightful. If you see maps like that with strong segregation, one of the first attempts to explain it is "racism". However, if you divide your neighborhood in 9 blocks such that you are in the center, you have 8 neighbors. Schelling's model now shows that even in cities where most people say:"I'd like to live next to…

Reminds me of a similar thing in developmental biology, where if you have two populations of cells, each having a slighly higher affinity for other cells of its own type, then they will very efficiently sort themselves into separate compartments. This is thought to be a pretty important mechanism in the formation and maintenance of structures in the body. In case anyone's interested, here is a nice (if now rather old…

Is true in physics as well. That's how stars are formed... Gravity is extremely weak, and so the affinity for one atom and another is extremely small, but after millions of years they still cluster together so hard sparks fly.
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