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Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

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Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#121

Post by sneak »

veidr wrote: post #112
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

It's a great, great design when considered in a vacuum. Of all the cables I use (and I use many), it's the one I would choose if I could magically make that what all my devices use. But, when taken in context of the real world, where only Apple devices have this svelte and clever and proprietary, closed, licensing-hostile connector... on balance, it fucking sucks. I would like my iPhones and iPads significantly bette…

Lightning is extensible, thereby preventing the "in fifteen years once every single hotel and gym has adopted it we will have to force them all to change again" problem which affects both the dock connector and micro-usb.

Those that think lightning connectors are just a pain in the ass haven't thought it through.

Additionally, it is one of the best physical connectors ever designed - a good choice for a reprogrammable interface that we are hopefully stuck with forever.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#122

Post by sneak »

veidr wrote: post #115
eridius wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to use a micro-USB charger to charge my iPhone, I would die a little inside every time I plugged it in. Every single USB connector ever is a PITA to plug in. The Lightning connector on my iPhone is amazing. I can plug it in purely by feel, in my dark bedroom after turning out the lights. I dare you to try that with a USB connector. And the damn thing feels really sturdy too. I have no problem picking up my i…

Yeah, I agree, the design of it is great . Im just saying for me pretty-good-and-completely-ubiquitous beats sublime-design-but-have-to-worry-about-having-the-right-cable. It is indeed easier to plug in the Lightning phone charger in pitch black darkness. But I haven't needed to do that yet in 2013. What I have needed to do is ask a bunch of people if they happened to have an iPhone cable -- oh no, sorry, not that on…

Get the adapter, and try to relax for the intervening year or so until lightning cables are as ubiquitous as dock connectors are/were.

Alternately, buy a Mophie Juicepack. Extra battery life AND an integrated microUSB adapter.

I think the real misstep here is Mophie shipping the juicepacks for the iP5 with microUSB as power input (vs lightning), though.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#123

Post by veidr »

sneak wrote: post #122
veidr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree, the design of it is great . Im just saying for me pretty-good-and-completely-ubiquitous beats sublime-design-but-have-to-worry-about-having-the-right-cable. It is indeed easier to plug in the Lightning phone charger in pitch black darkness. But I haven't needed to do that yet in 2013. What I have needed to do is ask a bunch of people if they happened to have an iPhone cable -- oh no, sorry, not that on…

Get the adapter, and try to relax for the intervening year or so until lightning cables are as ubiquitous as dock connectors are/were. Alternately, buy a Mophie Juicepack. Extra battery life AND an integrated microUSB adapter. I think the real misstep here is Mophie shipping the juicepacks for the iP5 with microUSB as power input (vs lightning), though.

Not surprisingly, I guess, I don't think is was a misstep; one of the reasons I love the Mophie cases is because they add a normal, standard port to the iPhone.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#124

Post by CamperBob2 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #107
mikeash wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the question isn't why Apple should share their innovations, but why the rest of us should enforce Apple's desire not to share. Would Apple really have refrained from developing Lightning without the ability to control it? Are we better off granting them this power?

Apple would have refrained from developing Lightning if it didn't give them a competitive advantage. I think that is obvious. Why would Apple just donate Lightning to the rest of the industry? How would we as consumers reward them for such altruism? That I give Apple the power to develop innovative proprietary solutions is a choice I personally make and I want the freedom to make. Why should everyone be forced to buy…

How would we as consumers reward them for such altruism?

Even Apple can't invent everything they need themselves. They would benefit from a patent-free ecosystem by being able to adopt other manufacturers' advances, just as the other manufacturers would benefit from being able to adopt Lightning.

It's impossible to prove that patents are a net win for anyone but patent lawyers.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#125

Post by kbutler »

eridius wrote: post #113
veidr wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great, great design when considered in a vacuum. Of all the cables I use (and I use many), it's the one I would choose if I could magically make that what all my devices use. But, when taken in context of the real world, where only Apple devices have this svelte and clever and proprietary, closed, licensing-hostile connector... on balance, it fucking sucks. I would like my iPhones and iPads significantly bette…

If I had to use a micro-USB charger to charge my iPhone, I would die a little inside every time I plugged it in. Every single USB connector ever is a PITA to plug in. The Lightning connector on my iPhone is amazing. I can plug it in purely by feel, in my dark bedroom after turning out the lights. I dare you to try that with a USB connector. And the damn thing feels really sturdy too. I have no problem picking up my i…

I have several micro USB cables that are asymmetrical - the cable is shifted to the side, like http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Micro-Travel-Charger-M540/dp/B...

These are trivial to plug in purely by feel in the dark.

And as a bonus, they charge many of my devices! I "die a little inside" every time I have to use a special cable for an iDevice (or a Samsung tablet!)

Interesting that you consider it an advantage to have a connection sturdy enough to pick up the device by the cable. You probably don't care much for magsafe adapters...

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#126

Post by laumars »

mbell wrote: post #119
laumars wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're missing the issue here. The examples you've given are all with the 'host' powering the 'device'. e.g. Your computer powering your USB keyboard. 'Host' and 'Device' are specific modes of operation in the USB spec, it isn't multi-master. That's the only way you'd ever want to power a USB device though. It makes no sense to power the host from the device. Plus this isn't even the case with iPod docks -…

> That's the only way you'd ever want to power a USB device though. It makes no sense to power the host from the device. Plus this isn't even the case with iPod docks - they're all powered in the mains. You're still not getting it. I want the dock to power the tablet so it charges, the dock gets power from mains does not change that at all. > The host on an iPod dock isn't the iPod; it's the dock. You can't make this…

> You're still not getting it. I want the dock to power the tablet so it charges, the dock gets power from mains does not change that at all.

Actually it's you who's missing the point. I've already told you that that does happen, it's just some handsets require a higher charge than others - and docks will only ever output the lowest required volts/amps because they wouldn't want to damage other hardware that is designed to pull less power. IIRC iPod/iPhone users had similar problems when Apple changed the input power rating for newer devices a few years ago.

> You can't make this statement definitively. If one of the features of the dock is a keyboard, it's going to be acting as a HID interface device and will be acting in device mode....

lol How many music docks act as a keyboard? Plus there's a contingency for that in the spec anyway as you can run more than one USB interface concurrently over a single USB port.

> This is wrong. A 'device' can never initiate a transfer, all transfers are negotiated by the 'host'. The 'host' is the bus master and manages all transfers regardless of what they are or where they are going. e.i. USB is a 'polling' interface, not a 'pushing' interface. You can not have more than 1 host on a USB bus.

You're missing the point. It's just a software specification. Once the devices have linked, you can programmatically design the software to work whichever way you want. As I pointed out before, there's plenty of USB devices that behave this way already; devices that -from the user perspective- both initiate and receive data.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#127

Post by coob »

Sanddancer wrote: post #82
coob wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's over designed right now but its software adaptability makes it essentially future-proof. In 10-15 years it will still be useful.

It was underdesigned out of the box. From the documents I've read, USB 3.0 requires three differential pairs, whereas Apple only provides two with their proprietary connector. Plus, the built-in DRM means that it's a lot more difficult for hobbyists/experimenters to hack on it.

You're assuming that the USB3 controller would be inside the phone, it wouldn't, it'd be in the cable.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#128

Post by drone »

marshray wrote: post #108
drone wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This x100. Never use this style of connector/jack for supplying power. The cable tip will make contact with both the jack ring and sleeve in most jacks, and the cable ring will make contact with the jack sleeve. No matter how you wire the cable/jack, you always have the high probably of short on insertion/removal.

With electronics on both ends, the devices could easily negotiate in which direction power should flow, how much, and detect open and short conditions.

So, tell us how you expect this task would be achieved. (I know some possible ways, but I could just as easily say "but none are as effective as using the right cable for the task!")
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