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Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

theguardian.com

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Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#121

Post by twoodfin »

samstave wrote: post #106
twoodfin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am beyond happy and proud if HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the HN community for keeping these issues in the front page and having such a sober view of their implications! Sober views like calling the U.S. a police state? The train where hn had a high-quality discussion about U.S. surveillance and national security policy left the station long, long ago. It was a…

Yes, calling out the US on the fact that it actually is a police state is sober. If you do not recognize what the true nature of the US is at this point, then you may be in denial about it. While you might say that things are "not that bad" - just because you hav some relative "comfort" (so long as you're not against the State) - does not mean that the actual architecture of the system is not that of a police state.

Just out of morbid curiosity, when do you think the U.S. became a police state? Decade-level precision is fine.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#122

Post by zerooneinfinity »

criley2 wrote: post #8
spodek wrote: post #5

"Can we call it a police state now?" I saw the question on Reddit after a different revelation last month. I feel like we're going to ask that question more and more. I can only hope more and more of us are inspired, as Snowden was by Levinson (Lavabit's CEO) and many of us have been by both of them, and we act to protect ourselves and constrain our governments from overreaching to where they can't help repeating the…

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

'My police state is worse then your police state!'

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#123

Post by venomsnake »

criley2 wrote: post #8
spodek wrote: post #5

"Can we call it a police state now?" I saw the question on Reddit after a different revelation last month. I feel like we're going to ask that question more and more. I can only hope more and more of us are inspired, as Snowden was by Levinson (Lavabit's CEO) and many of us have been by both of them, and we act to protect ourselves and constrain our governments from overreaching to where they can't help repeating the…

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

It is not so simple - trends are important.

For now few things are clearly visible:

1. US spends disproportionately on security and surveillance.

2. There is mission creep and mission search in all security related branches.

3. Vague laws gives prosecutors insane amounts of heavy mallets with which to threaten people - if 95% of trials end with guilty plea and a deal - due process is illusion.

4. US is having very high incarceration per capital ratio.

And while 4 has leveled in the last few years I think the other are accelerating. Of course it is not impossible to be reversed. Or even that hard.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#124

Post by wonderyak »

zeidrich wrote: post #120
RyanZAG wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in that a key difference would be if people were held accountable for illegal acts. However, simply investigating the president is not enough - it would actually need to be possible for him to be accused and held liable. An investigation in which the conclusion is already obvious and no one will be held accountable is not really an investigation, it is only smoke and mirrors. Throwing out one set of…

Being held accountable is irrelevant. If what people want is someone to be accountable, people will get scapegoats. The key difference would be that when acts happen that defy the needs and expectations of society that those actions end. If Keith Alexander was blamed for acting without authorization and imprisoned for treason and then NSA operations went quietly on their way again, that wouldn't necessarily mean anyt…

Many of us are calling for changes, many people thought electing Obama would facilitate this change. I think these people are the most upset of all; the man ran on a campaign of change ...

There is a general concensus among people across the political parties that things are broken. Congress is not good, the President is not doing a good job and problems are mounting.

The majority realizes that the system is broken (ish), things are bad, the government should be doing something about it instead of prolonging the status quo -- and yet we can't get any meaningful change going.

I just don't understand it.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#125

Post by pearjuice »

kamjam wrote: post #94
Evernoob wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> living the life of a celebrity right now I very much doubt it's as glamorous as you seem to be imagining.

Exactly, he's living in hiding. Osama Bin Laden had to do the same, but for actually committing terrible crimes. Hardly the same magnitude and hardly living the life of a celebrity.

He is publicly available for theguardian journalists 24/7 to reply on current matters so you can assume the USA can pinpoint his exact location with precise accuracy. Unless you think the USA didn't know where Osama was either untill they did their raid?

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#126

Post by wonderyak »

twoodfin wrote: post #31
RyanZAG wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in that a key difference would be if people were held accountable for illegal acts. However, simply investigating the president is not enough - it would actually need to be possible for him to be accused and held liable. An investigation in which the conclusion is already obvious and no one will be held accountable is not really an investigation, it is only smoke and mirrors. Throwing out one set of…

Why are you so sure these programs are illegal? Might it be possible that you find them distasteful, but that under our current Constitutional and legal regime, there's nothing for anyone to be "held accountable" for?

Part of the problem is the FISA Court. The court has the power to interpret the constitution, holds secret hearings, the rulings are secret and only government lawyers are allowed.

You can now break the law without even knowing it.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#127

Post by quantumpotato_ »

What's up with all of these news articles where person A thinks topic B is word "C", in quotes? Maybe I'm missing something, but just throwing words onto events and calling it news looks like unthoughtful neurolinguistic programming. "this thing is called 'horrifying'". Often the articles don't declare the subject, so we just see that an invisible someone has done something. Sort of like "Wall graffitied with "$GANGTAG" sign". Off topic, I know. Just having a tough time grappling with news articles titled like this..

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#128

Post by anovikov »

Ziomislaw wrote: post #83
Raphmedia wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good bye all your friends. Good bye your childhood house. Good bye your parents. And what I think should stands as the most important for people of your country... Good bye America. Yep, sounds like he sacrificed his life. Sure, he can build a new one. But his last one? Pretty much destroyed.

I've read he also dumped his girlfriend before he leaked (to save her from US revenge). Imagine you have to dump your loved one (against your wishes).

okay okay, i am not doubting Snowden is a good guy. I am just trying to tell there is nothing so tragic in his current situation (while of course, he risked much more). One day life will pay him back for this. And for now, he will be just fine. And there are plenty of good girls to date in Russia (and many of them are already attacking him).

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#129

Post by graeme »

criley2 wrote: post #8
spodek wrote: post #5

"Can we call it a police state now?" I saw the question on Reddit after a different revelation last month. I feel like we're going to ask that question more and more. I can only hope more and more of us are inspired, as Snowden was by Levinson (Lavabit's CEO) and many of us have been by both of them, and we act to protect ourselves and constrain our governments from overreaching to where they can't help repeating the…

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

These issues aren't black and white. Calling the US a police state is perhaps unhelpful.

Emerging police state may be more accurate. The people who use such language note trends. The USA still has liberty, but things are moving in the wrong direction.

An article is on the front page on the increasing militarization of police forces. This level of police action surpasses the level of state violence in many police states.

I've lived in one police state: Cuba. In many ways, the Cubans were freer of speech than Americans are, and they faced less police intrusion in their lives.

And, in other ways, the Cubans were less free and faced more restrictions on speech. Chiefly, when someone decided to step out of line and move from passive complainer to actual threat to the state.

My point is this. The USA is still a free country. Citizens enjoy great liberty. However, there are many elements of US society that surpass the excesses of 'police states'. Those trends are increasing, not decreasing.

Pointing out that the institutions of American democracy still exist and exercise certain functions does not refute any concerns about increasing state violence.

When is the appropriate moment to voice concerns that the USA is moving towards becoming a police state? Once it happens, it will be too late.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#130

Post by darkarmani »

jusben1369 wrote: post #81
pearjuice wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sacrified his life? Please stop. He merely leaked classified data and sold pieces of it here and there. He is basically living the life of a celebrity right now yet dramafies his existence.

HN folks. I think ck2's response and pearjuice's response are both inaccurate as they represent an extreme view. It might be useful to read about celebratory and the attractions and psyche of those that are drawn to it. Many of you here share Snowden's feelings but none of you did what he did. Was it simply his sense of justice that made him do this? Or something more? If he'd stayed in the US and immediately faced t…

> If he'd stayed in the US and immediately faced the music it would be much more apparent that he's a true hero willing to sacrifice everything for his beliefs. Once he plotted the whole thing and moved to a safe place before releasing it and has looked to avoid any punishment for his actions...

That is an unreasonable standard. I guess Gen. Douglas McArthur should have stayed and faced the Japanese in the Philippines?

Why would hero status require being stupid about your situation?

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