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Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

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Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#121

Post by 1morepassword »

slg wrote: post #7

This is the kind of response I was expecting from tech companies. The mistrust of the government has extended to this industry and we can't simply rest on a simple denial of the accusations. Many people now believe that companies like Google send a complete copy of their entire customer records to the NSA. That is a dangerous belief and like discussed on other threads here, it could really damage the long term viabil…

> mistrust of the government has extended to this industry

I'm sorry, are we now taking the opportunity to blame big evil government for this?

The mistrust of this industry has always existed as a completely separate issue due to the utter lack of respect for privacy and privacy related laws, an attitude of which Google is one the most prominent exponents. This is a company that lobbies governments against privacy protection.

An industry that has for years tried to convince the public that surrendering your privacy to them for profit is perfectly okay has zero credibility in this matter.

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#122

Post by Spearchucker »

kvb wrote: post #118
bo1024 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. If they can force companies to lie about the existence of FISA requests, why wouldn't they force them to lie about the number of such?

What lies have companies told?

Difficult to tell. The fact the Google's name is singled out with 8 others on an NSA slide fuels speculation, and is at odds (again, speculation) with this letter. Someone on either side will have to provide something spectacularly believable to kill that speculation.

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#124

Post by ippisl »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #77
salimmadjd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree! This opens the door for new services based in countries like Iceland to compete in the international market. I'm surprised libertarian minded investors like Peter Thiel have not began a fund in some of these countries. Even signaling such a move would give Google, Facebook, etc. strong argument to fight off NSA's broad requests and we all win!

Funny thing Peter Thiel is a founder and key investor in Palantir which is doing big-data work for the NSA among other things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies#WikiLeaks... I'd really enjoy hearing Thiel's perspective on this whole issue given that he is a libertarian with a strong business relationship with the NSA and a strong business relationship with facebook.

He did an interview with sarah lacy on the pandodaily and talked a bit about palantir and transparency. maybe you'll find his view there.

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#126

Post by leot »

tptacek wrote: post #69
mtgx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about a few people using those encryption tools. It's about major companies like Google making them mainstream tools , and also making them very easy to use (as easy as it can get).

My point is that Google Mail is an insecure setting from which to deliver PGP.

For heaven's sake: there's a compromise to be reached between sending postcards and using a Brink's truck.

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#127

Post by adventured »

tptacek wrote: post #11
mtgx wrote: post #8

I'm only upvoting this not because I have much loyalty or trust left for Google, but because I want many other companies to follow their lead and flood the Administration with such requests. I still feel this does very little, though. They need to be asking them for much more. They need to ask them to end the spying. Until then I'm still hoping Google, Microsoft, Facebook and others will suffer greatly for this abroa…

So you'll be happy when the US ends all foreign signals intelligence? Or makes the Internet a safe haven from signals intelligence? Also: by offering PGP in GMail, Google would harm online security. If you want PGP, install it on your computer. Google won't do anything to stop you.

The parent said absolutely nothing about ending all foreign signals intelligence. You're intentionally dramatizing.

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#128

Post by acqq »

jroseattle wrote: post #45

Unfortunately, the statements from everyone involved have made me skeptical to the point I feel I have to consistently read between the lines and pick a statement apart. What does "unfettered access" mean? What are "valid legal requests"? While there is an implication of spirit in their words, I know deep down that everyone involved is focused on the letter of their words. This has nothing to do with my personal trus…

Exactly, if the requests exist only to cover the legality of the access of the U.S. citizen data as long as they are on U.S. soil, the numbers they mention would still represent just a small piece of the whole picture.

At least they mention in one sentence "the number of FISA national security requests that Google receives, as well as the number of accounts covered by those requests" which is already much more useful information than only the "number of requests." We saw that in Verizon case one single request was enough to mean "give me all about everything from everybody."

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#129

Post by jbooth »

tptacek wrote: post #99
nitrogen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the interpretation of those laws as used by the courts and the DoJ a secret?

In that ever court case involves a judge interpreting the law, and none of the FISA cases will ever be public because they involve confidential targets, informants, sources, and methods of intelligence gathering, yes. But the prevailing view seems to be that the whole FISA program is a system of secret laws, which is not in fact the truth.

Case law? Precedent?

Re: Asking the U.S. to allow Google to publish more national security request data

#130

Post by mikegioia »

mrt0mat0 wrote: post #111
Spearchucker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. I think leaking details of signals intelligence programs should be a crime. I think dealing in absolutes, anywhere, should be a crime.

by saying "anywhere", aren't you dealing in absolutes?

He absolutely is
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