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Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

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Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#121

Post by mattbarrie »

brianbreslin wrote: post #57
mattbarrie wrote: post #14

Hi there, I'm the CEO of Freelancer.com. I'd be interested to know what problem you ran into?

I used to be a semi-regular purchaser of small projects on vworker (rentacoder), and didn't like the transition to freelancer. On freelancer I had mixed success with the quality, and also the timeliness of deliverables. I also didn't like the method for escrow/disbursement of payments. I do wish you could more clearly label payments and structures (vworker was super ugly, but much clearer in this respect).

Hi Brian, what do you mean specifically?

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#122

Post by mattbarrie »

ilaksh wrote: post #101

Just for curiosity's sake 10dpd, what exactly was the task, the description, and the rate or fixed fee you advertised for it to be completed? And what happened during that implementation process? Were there any new requirements or wrinkles discovered? What was the final amount the developer received or was to receive? And how long ago was it that you started unsuccessfully trying to get this task completed on a freel…

This would be good to know, at least I will be able to respond to the initial issue that spawned this thread.

Regards Matt

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#123

Post by mattbarrie »

Dove wrote: post #111
mgiglesias wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how there's no single ex-vWorker that's out there saying how happy they are about the no-heads-up-whatsoever acquisition. The could've done a much better job.

They could have. More remarkable to me, though, is that no one's criticizing the transition itself. Everyone is saying, "I liked vWorker better." I guess it isn't that surprising, when I think about it, though. I knew Freelancer existed. If I'd wanted an account there, I would have already had one. Still, I'd think there would be more people who said, "Oh well, the new site's nice, too." Judging from this comment thr…

It's an incorrect statement. vWorker user earnings are well up, around 50% higher than before.

vWorker did have some great freelancers and some really nice features. However it was an incredibly difficult site to use, this is why they did not survive as an independent business. Ironically, this is what those people that were left on the site at the end were high quality. To post a project took something like 3 pages of complicated forms in a 3 point font in order to just get it live. Around 70% of people dropped out of the post project funnel. So of course, if you laboured on to complete those three pages then you are probably a pretty dedicated employer. Likewise if you were a freelancer and put up with horrendous interface, you were probably pretty dedicated. vWorker's UI was franking shocking, and so was its UX. It was right out of 1995.

We imported 100% of the feedback into our reputation system, so the big freelancers on vWorker are also at the top of the leaderboards at Freelancer - and there are significantly more projects on Freelancer than vWorker ever had. Also a vast majority of employers have come across and are active on Freelancer. I am not sure what sort of projects you are going for, or what categories you are working in- I am happy to have a look at your account if you private message or email me to provide some feedback to you.

Regards Matt

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#124

Post by mattbarrie »

mgiglesias wrote: post #80
moepstar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I was a veteran of vWorker, too. I found the site quirky and ugly, but deeply functional. This, this and a thousand times this. After the switch, i've had to run around and argue with their 1st-Level support-monkeys to merge 2 accounts so i could withdraw what was left over in my vWorker account. Took 2 months and you can be sure i'll never ever again visit that site >:(

Exactly my feeling. I have only had bad experiences with the vWorker → Freelancer transition. In fact I felt it was engineered for only one simple reason: to get more "workers" to pay the monthly subscription fee.

mgiglesias, I am not going to comment on your business, workana. But your statement is grossly incorrect.

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#125

Post by mgiglesias »

mattbarrie wrote: post #124
mgiglesias wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my feeling. I have only had bad experiences with the vWorker → Freelancer transition. In fact I felt it was engineered for only one simple reason: to get more "workers" to pay the monthly subscription fee.

mgiglesias, I am not going to comment on your business, workana. But your statement is grossly incorrect.

It could be. That's why I said "I felt". A feeling is not a fact by definition

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#126

Post by mgiglesias »

mattbarrie wrote: post #123
Dove wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have. More remarkable to me, though, is that no one's criticizing the transition itself. Everyone is saying, "I liked vWorker better." I guess it isn't that surprising, when I think about it, though. I knew Freelancer existed. If I'd wanted an account there, I would have already had one. Still, I'd think there would be more people who said, "Oh well, the new site's nice, too." Judging from this comment thr…

It's an incorrect statement. vWorker user earnings are well up, around 50% higher than before. vWorker did have some great freelancers and some really nice features. However it was an incredibly difficult site to use, this is why they did not survive as an independent business. Ironically, this is what those people that were left on the site at the end were high quality. To post a project took something like 3 pages…

You do have a point. All of us ex-vWorker users had to "put up" with the UI. Of course Freelancer is way better in that aspect. In terms of UX you have a better product than vWorker. However so do pretty much all other platforms. It isn't hard to offer something better than a "horrendous interface"

Regarding the feedback transition it indeed went smoothly, minor some glitches (for example one of our ongoing vWorker projects took two months to appear on Freelancer) The reputation, though, was greatly destroyed. To move from a long lasting #1 ranking to be in Level 10 (or whatever, can't remember which one) and from within that level to be placed in the 10s of thousands is not a fair move.

This is purely coming as a vWorker user, it has nothing to do with my business. I do understand that were existing users with an ongoing reputation on Freelancer, so displacing them because of an acquisition is also unfair.

But to offer "a badge" and "one month free membership", after which you have to pay monthly to keep your subscription is the reason why I personally know the majority of the top 100 workers from vWorker moved away from the forced switch.

They, and I, felt aggravated by a sudden and very harsh shutdown. Now this is not freelancer fault, I'd guess, but vWorker. They should have given a more friendly approach to the whole process, other than a "Goodbye folks I'm happy with the acquisition" and a "Email support at freelancer" from now on.

Most of the people I know (including me) from vWorker took our business INTO vWorker. I did not get most of my work through the platform, but I did move my clients into it. We did that because despite the awful UX there was a feeling of being a part of something that worked. You obviously have the numbers so you can probably see that was the case. And I can go as far as saying that probably 80% of vWorker business was handled by the top 20% of workers. So helping that 20% be happy about the transition would probably have helped the process.

This is, once again, my personal feeling as an ex vWorker. I do hope all those ex vWorker users that are part of Freelancer stay there and are happy with their decision.

And kudos to you matt for nerding it up and answer all these comments.

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#127

Post by lotharbot »

mattbarrie wrote: post #114
lotharbot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[context: I am Dove's husband and acted as her administrative assistant on vWorker] Really, what it comes down to from my perspective is that freelancer is not geared toward the type of freelancing we're trying to do: making a living as professionals in a first-world country. As professionals, we have reason to want to grant limited account access to a secretary, accountant, or sub-contractor. This feature existed on…

Hi Dove/lotharbot, Thanks for your feedback. Some of the vWorker freelancers I agree were exceptional - this is why they are now at the top of the leaderboard in many categories. vWorker users earnings are, on a whole, up about 50% post acquisition from what they were before. If you send me an email I can look into your accounts and see if I can make a recommendation for you, if you like (my email is easy to guess @f…

> "You are mixing up the Freelancer leveling system with reputation."

This sort of confusion suggests the leveling system is far more prominent, and therefore distracting, than it needs to be.

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#128

Post by jf22 »

mgiglesias wrote: post #8

I've been the top #1 provider for years and up until vWorker got sold to freelancer. I honestly think that was an awful move, since what made vWorker different from the rest is that it had less number of providers (and clients), but with a much better quality. This, and the fact that being a freelancer for years helped me identify lots of things that were poorly done on sites such as freelancer, made me realize that…

Why are the stock photos on your main page of white people?

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#129

Post by Dove »

mattbarrie wrote: post #118
Dove wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make sense for people who are bidding for projects, either -- at least, it doesn't make sense for me. It's a childish system, completely out of tune with how I want to present myself professionally. I don't want to Like You On Facebook or Follow You On Twitter, I don't want to Level Up For More Bids, I certainly don't want to bid on 200 projects a month, and I certainly , CERTAINLY don't want to see my cli…

This system is only exposed to you personally, it is not exposed to employers and has no effect on your on-site rating whatsoever (which we call reputation, a metric)

I appreciate that! It wasn't clear to me how public my own level was.

My bad reaction is actually from a conversation I had with a couple clients I had sent to the site -- they saw their own "level", I guess, and were rather put off by the whole thing. Not that I blame them; I find it pretty tacky, too. Hence I've been avoiding bringing new clients to the site.

Re: Ask HN: What Freelancer site do you recommend?

#130

Post by mattbarrie »

mgiglesias wrote: post #126
mattbarrie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an incorrect statement. vWorker user earnings are well up, around 50% higher than before. vWorker did have some great freelancers and some really nice features. However it was an incredibly difficult site to use, this is why they did not survive as an independent business. Ironically, this is what those people that were left on the site at the end were high quality. To post a project took something like 3 pages…

You do have a point. All of us ex-vWorker users had to "put up" with the UI. Of course Freelancer is way better in that aspect. In terms of UX you have a better product than vWorker. However so do pretty much all other platforms. It isn't hard to offer something better than a "horrendous interface" Regarding the feedback transition it indeed went smoothly, minor some glitches (for example one of our ongoing vWorker p…

You don't have to pay for membership. Free accounts have a 10% commission, versus 15% for vworker. Our paid commissions drop this as far as 3%.

You were happy moving your clients in to pay 15%?

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