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Iron Ring

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Iron Ring

#121

Post by gknoy »

larrydag wrote: post #27
potatolicious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling yourself a P.Eng without actually being a licensed P.Eng is very, very illegal. Calling yourself an Engineer without having graduated from a CEAB-accredited institution is also illegal, just that people don't care nearly as much as bout this. You will occasionally see job postings and titles for "software engineers" from companies that don't know about this particular legal snag, and for the most part it's no…

As a licensed Professional Engineer I worry about the state of engineering in the US. I feel the word "engineer" is diluted to mean any job that requires technical know-how. Yet there are important ethical considerations if one practices as an engineer. I wish the true engineering professions could have the "Engineer" title differentiated from these other technical professions but it looks like it won't happen anytim…

For those of us who are not Engineers, can you elaborate (or point us to more info) on the Important Ethical Considerations? I've always struggled to explain why programming is not engineering.

Re: Iron Ring

#122

Post by adambard »

joegaudet wrote: post #82
sergiotapia wrote: post #34

Is there something like this for Software developers? We make the world go round and round; shouldn't we also have something this beautiful?

We make the world go round is exactly what the ring is _not_ about. For one, software developers /engineers would be nothing without the computer engineers building the systems the software runs on, and the computer engineers would be nothing without the electrical engineers and device physicists who develop the electrical components from which computers are built... and on and on it goes (turtles the whole way down)…

There was one more layer of symbolism to the ring that was mentioned in the super-secret ring ceremony (which is well-documented on wikipedia). New rings have rough edges due to the bevelled decoration; over time it smooths out, symbolizing one's maturing as a professional.

I heard a friend-of-a-friend story that described a senior engineer who lost his ring and had to get a replacement. He complained that he "felt like a kid" with his fresh ring and was apparently found in the metal shop later grinding down the edges.

Re: Iron Ring

#123

Post by adambard »

theg5prank wrote: post #53
sergiotapia wrote: post #34

Is there something like this for Software developers? We make the world go round and round; shouldn't we also have something this beautiful?

I think you may be missing the point. These rings are given to graduating engineers not as a beautiful object of congratulations for their achievements, but as a token designed to remind them of the burden they have taken on.

[This poem](http://www.tricolour.net/som.html) is part of the Canadian ceremony (or was at mine, anyhow), and describes the aforementioned burden. It may be because it strokes an engineers' ego a bit, but I enjoy it.

Re: Iron Ring

#124

Post by kruhft »

ars wrote: post #88
kruhft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no option to get an Iron version back when I graduated in '97. The story was the iron ones turned your finger black so they stopped selling them. Still have mine after all these years and it doesn't come off anymore, so I think I'll be taking it to the grave.

I hope you never need an MRI. It really doesn't come off?

I guess it could be cut off if I really needed to :) But other than that, no it doesn't come off. You tend to gain weight as you get older, even on your fingers.

Re: Iron Ring

#125

Post by AYBABTME »

TheCapn wrote: post #90
ovoxo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Software Engineer in Canada and I have an iron ring but that is because our Software Engineering programs (at least the ones that I know of) are accredited engineering programs - i.e. you must go through much of the same hell as other engineers.

Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board is the authoritative body as far as I'm aware and in order to title yourself an "Engineer" you need to be a member of your provincial regulatory body since the title "Engineer" is a protected title under law. It isn't really enforced in any way but to call yourself a "Software Engineer" without having P.Eng. in Canada is technically illegal. EDIT: Its pointed out in a differen…

Software Engineers in Canada can be P.Eng if they choose to. What makes you think she/he's not?

Re: Iron Ring

#126

Post by stephencanon »

nrivadeneira wrote: post #118
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cars, bridges, building structure Those three things right there commonly have embedded software monitoring or controlling them. As far as levers and bolts go, a lot of them have sensors monitored by software for stress. I really don't think most people, even software developers, realize how pervasive software is in their lives.

"As far as levers and bolts go, a lot of them have sensors monitored by software for stress." That's in the far minority of situations. As part of my ME curriculum, I've worked with these types of sensors. It's very rare you'll find them monitoring bolts and levers. It's true that software is extremely pervasive, however I believe you're overestimating the critical nature of it in most applications. Cars, bridges, bu…

> Most critical failure points are mechanical.

Given that many mechanical and structural components are designed with the assistance of software that analyzes the stresses they are subjected to (and sometimes little or no analysis is performed beyond software simulation), one might question if it’s even possible to underestimate the role of software.

Re: Iron Ring

#127

Post by jonny_eh »

ars wrote: post #88
kruhft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no option to get an Iron version back when I graduated in '97. The story was the iron ones turned your finger black so they stopped selling them. Still have mine after all these years and it doesn't come off anymore, so I think I'll be taking it to the grave.

I hope you never need an MRI. It really doesn't come off?

I don't think it's ferromagnetic.

Re: Iron Ring

#128

Post by amackera »

proland wrote: post #95
dsshimel wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also got a BS in MechE, then got a job as a software engineer, so now my girlfriend wears my ethics ring. I guess we're exempt from programming morally!

It is illegal to wear the ring in any fashion if you are not a practicing engineer (as you should have been told when you were obligated).

That is not true. The iron ring has nothing to do with the law.

Re: Iron Ring

#129

Post by Zombieball »

AYBABTME wrote: post #125
TheCapn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board is the authoritative body as far as I'm aware and in order to title yourself an "Engineer" you need to be a member of your provincial regulatory body since the title "Engineer" is a protected title under law. It isn't really enforced in any way but to call yourself a "Software Engineer" without having P.Eng. in Canada is technically illegal. EDIT: Its pointed out in a differen…

Software Engineers in Canada can be P.Eng if they choose to. What makes you think she/he's not?

This is correct. I graduated from UBC as a Software Engineer and have applied as an EIT with APEGBC. I haven't followed through to apply for P. Eng. status though as the process is a little more difficult for software folks.

You are supposed to submit work experience under supervision of another P. Eng. which are not very common place in our industry. I believe you can apply for exceptions to this rule though.

I personally haven't bothered following through with my P. Eng. status as I am not yet convinced it buys much in our profession (vs. the other fields of Engineering).

Re: Iron Ring

#130

Post by amackera »

Serow225 wrote: post #62

I got mine in 2003 for a B. Sc in Mechanical Engineering, but since I ended up going to work at a software development company, I decided not to wear it - just felt wrong. This was a personal choice, YMMV :)

I wear mine despite not doing professional engineering work. It actually serves as a great reminder of my ethical obligations beyond my personal comfort. I'm sure not everybody needs as constant reminding as I do though ;)
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