Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer • Hacker News Board

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#121

Post by a_m0d » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

pitt1980 wrote: post #114

I'm just going to throw this out there, people don't pass marked cars so a marked car driving the speed limit causes traffic to back up behind them for no other reason than to alleviate traffic congestion, it probably makes sense for them to drive 15-20 miles over the speed limit (that obviously doesn't excuse driving 130 mph)

What's the problem with the marked cars driving the speed limit? If all the cars drive at the speed limit, that's good, right?

I always thought the speed limit was there as a speed limit. I've found that in Australia, speed limits are obeyed much more than in North America, where they seem to be suggestions or lower bounds on speed. Many times in Canada I've been travelling in traffic that's doing 30 - 40 kph over the speed limit. That's enough to get your car confiscated in Western Australia!

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#122

Post by pc86 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:49 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #112

fyi80 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, machines tend to have no discretion. This a feature, that protects and racism and classism.

> that protects and racism You've got a point. >and classism. Meh, I'm not so sure about that one, and really, in both cases it depends where the machines are sited.

By that logic it doesn't protect against racism either.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#123

Post by pc86 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:50 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #120

pitt1980 wrote: post #114

I'm just going to throw this out there, people don't pass marked cars so a marked car driving the speed limit causes traffic to back up behind them for no other reason than to alleviate traffic congestion, it probably makes sense for them to drive 15-20 miles over the speed limit (that obviously doesn't excuse driving 130 mph)

I would argue that for the sake of the law, having a backup of cars behind an officer all doing the speed limit is a good thing. It's called the speed limit , not the speed range. As in, the maximum you're allowed to do on that road in perfect conditions. If we want to enforce the laws, having everyone follow a pace car going exactly the speed limit is a good thing. Having an officer going 65 in a 55 just to relieve…

I suspect a lot of people would may the majority of speed limits are irrelevant, but I digress.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#124

Post by pitt1980 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:51 PM UTC

a_m0d wrote: post #121

pitt1980 wrote: post #114

I'm just going to throw this out there, people don't pass marked cars so a marked car driving the speed limit causes traffic to back up behind them for no other reason than to alleviate traffic congestion, it probably makes sense for them to drive 15-20 miles over the speed limit (that obviously doesn't excuse driving 130 mph)

What's the problem with the marked cars driving the speed limit? If all the cars drive at the speed limit, that's good, right? I always thought the speed limit was there as a speed limit . I've found that in Australia, speed limits are obeyed much more than in North America, where they seem to be suggestions or lower bounds on speed. Many times in Canada I've been travelling in traffic that's doing 30 - 40 kph over t…

first thing that pops up when googling cost of traffic jams

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2009/11/10/oecd-...

the cost is real, and should be accounted for

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#125

Post by pc86 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:55 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #52

RyJones wrote: post #12

John Allen Paulos has been pushing using toll data for speeding citations for decades, most recently here: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/t/story?id=979...

There are a number of problems with doing things like this. The first is that significant speed differentials are extremely dangerous. Uncalibrated speedometers are very common and very inaccurate. Anything that causes guaranteed enforcement is going to reduce safety because people will start religiously following their speedometer instead of the normal flow of traffic, so now you have people driving all different sp…

Do you have any citations for your claim that "people driving 15MPH under the limit (because ... their speedometer is inaccurate)" is "very common?"

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#126

Post by talmand » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #96

dllthomas wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mostly uninformed opinion, drug laws are a huge part of the problem in terms of public interfacing with the police. That said, while people may complain about particular speed limits, I don't think very many would call a cap somewhere below 120mph "unjust".

The maximum safe speed really depends on the road, current traffic, weather, and the capabilities of the car. I could imagine some locations permitting safe travel at 120+. Maybe the revenue currently earned from speeding tickets can be gained by offering a "license to speed" instead, with increased driver training, insurance, and vehicle inspection requirements.

You can't go by the capabilities of the individual car. You have to also account for the capabilities of the other cars on the road. If a Ferrari is speeding along at 120 MPH, which might be easily within its capabilities, there will be problems when it encounters the small Hyundai that can only achieve 90 comfortably.

Plus there's the issue of driver's ability as well. Can you look in your side mirror and successfully gauge the speed of the car that's a good distance behind you to know whether you can safely change lanes? If the car is going at a known max speed, of which you are probably aware of as you are likely at that speed yourself, then you can change but if the car is going two to three times faster than you I would imagine changing lanes would be a bad idea.

Also, how would the police be able to judge the things you describe looking at your car driving by at 120 MPH while everyone else is driving in the 80s? The officer would have to constantly be pulling these people over to check their "licensed to speed" status. How would the officer be able to judge the conditions of your car as you breeze by? Sticker on the bumper? Better be a huge freaking sticker when you are flying through traffic.

Speed limits are decided upon on the safety of most cars for the general area and expectations of traffic conditions, not the capabilities of the cars or drivers on the road.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#127

Post by pc86 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

cafard wrote: post #111

A retired Marine I know said roughly "we recruit them with commercials showing guys rappelling from helicopters or advancing through fire, we train them to take extreme risks, and we're astonished when they go 130 on a motorcycle and get killed". I have very little interest in driving over about 75, but then I also have very little interest in confronting dangerous people.

A decent chunk of my last few weeks on Parris Island was them telling us how much money they'd spent on us and not to [expletive] it up by killing ourselves doing something stupid.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#128

Post by pc86 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:03 PM UTC

NewAccnt wrote: post #101

brokentone wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Pulitzer winners. One of the three for sure!

So all I need to do to be a great journalist is to win a Pulitzer?

Yes, and all you need to do to be a great mathematician is to win the Fields Medal. All you need to do to be a great jurist is to become the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#129

Post by dopamean » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:03 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #119

fludlight wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't just reach speeds of 130mph, but average speeds of 130mph over a distance of several miles. Their maximum speed was probably closer to 150-180.

I want to know what cars these officers are driving that are capable of 150-180mph, or capable of sustaining speeds of 130mph over a significant distance. From my knowledge, 150 is a fairly exclusive club limited to not-inexpensive performance cars, and 180 is a very hard target to meet, mostly at the feet of German luxury cars. I know police officers don't make six figures, so the question is what car are they in th…

Florida Highway Patrol has some seriously beefed up vehicles. As someone who used to run from the cops on my motorcycle semi-frequently I do have to say that I'm not aware of any that could get up to 180 though.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#130

Post by talmand » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:03 PM UTC

yew wrote: post #28

corwinstephen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frustrating? Yes. Shocking? No. Did anyone really believe that taking a job as a police officer somehow suppressed these people's natural desire to drive fast? Hell, that's probably what make them join the force in the first place. Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doin…

Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? Yes! Of course! Being an officer may be 'just a job', but in practice the hat doesn't come off. Which is the entire point - police officers occupy a particular position in society regardless of whether or not they're wearing a badge at the moment. That's not the same thing as saying that I'm surprise…

I agree. An off-duty cop is just off the clock. By the way the news reads there really is no such thing as an off-duty cop. A cop is always on the job. Describing a cop as off-duty suggests that he suddenly becomes a normal citizen like everyone else once the clock is punched at the end of the shift. But I'm willing to bet an off-duty cop has no issues with using police powers, if necessary, while off the clock.