$10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013 • Hacker News Board

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#121

Post by bshaurette » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:26 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #35

famousactress wrote: post #2

So, if I was at a shop with a large recruiting budget trying hard to land new talent, and I was also specifically interested in fostering an environment the encouraged and promoted women in our industry.. I'd seriously consider writing a check for 10k and doubling the contribution today. Any takers?

I think this is great, and I'd like to add: If you are cash-poor, as many startups are, there may be other ways to contribute as well. I'm the CEO of a startup here in Austin that uses Python. A couple weeks ago, another post here on HN led me to PyLadies, where I sought out the local Austin chapter. Turns out Barbara (mentioned in the article) runs the PyLadies Austin group. I noticed one of their weekend workshops…

Thanks for promoting the workshop Erica! And thank you, again, for helping us out with the location. This class is going to be a huge success thanks to your generosity.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#122

Post by taligent » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #74

martythemaniak wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently sharing a joke with a friend now qualifies you as an "idiot".

And not even an offensive joke either. They literally made a juvenile penis reference. Who here hasn't made one? Even made one today?

Me. Because I am not 5 years old.

So when I am at an event representing my company I act on my best behaviour. It's called basic professional conduct.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#123

Post by pekk » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:31 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #103

illuminate wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Plenty of sincere MRAs in tech.

So everyone who doesn't believe in so called "positive discrimination" is an MRA automatically? Huh? You'll have to show me the logic you used to get from one statement to the other.

The word "discrimination" is loaded with an assumption that we are talking about a form of bigotry.

If I want to make a scholarship for kids interested in history, particularly if such kids are rare and poorly supported, I'm not being bigoted against other kids.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#124

Post by pifflesnort » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:32 PM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #99

pifflesnort wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how one can reasonably equate funding of a one specific organization with the concerns of "an entire gender", without knowing more about what that organization does with those funds.

If your assertion is that PyLadies would use these funds to encourage that type of behavior, that seems counter-intuitive to their purpose (plus on their CoC page, it outlines that photographic harassment is not allowed, among many others). If you are genuinely interested in what they'd do with the money, you should contact them instead of making the suggestion that women should stay where they are, alienating those…

I didn't make the suggestion that 'women should stay where they are'. I asked what PyLadies does with raised funds.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#125

Post by lmickh » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:34 PM UTC

taligent wrote: post #120

lmickh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

This is a group with a noble cause trying to increase the frankly disgraceful percentage of women in technology. And you label them as discriminatory ? I take it you also oppose cancer groups then.

Feel free to quote the part where I say they actually discriminate.

You can take whatever you want from it. Not sure if you are taking from anything I said though....

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#126

Post by taligent » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:34 PM UTC

MartinCron wrote: post #111

martythemaniak wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently sharing a joke with a friend now qualifies you as an "idiot".

There was a time, not all that long ago, when you could smoke cigarettes at your desk in a professional office context. Now, out of respect for the comfort of others in a shared environment, the general consensus is that you should take that toxic shit outside where we don't all have to endure it.

I am starting to get the impression that a high percentage of people on here have never worked in an office before.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#127

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:35 PM UTC

taligent wrote: post #120

lmickh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

This is a group with a noble cause trying to increase the frankly disgraceful percentage of women in technology. And you label them as discriminatory ? I take it you also oppose cancer groups then.

Two things: #1, PyLadies is for everyone, as far as I can tell. So it's not discriminatory.

Now, if PyLadies was 'no men only,' it would absolutely be discriminatory: they're making a decision based on some kind of attribute. (It would also not be perpetuating 'sexism' since discrimination against men is not societaly re-enforced.)

The real question is 'is this bad?' I don't think that many people have a particular problem with discrimination when it's _for_ women or other minorities, especially when it's not at the _expense_ of everyone who's not within that group. A "women's only" programming group doesn't harm men in any way, yet helps women. I feel like this is the camp you may fall into. It is certainly the one I do.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#128

Post by stefantalpalaru » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:37 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #110

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he knows what Lynn Root did at last year's EuroPython[1][2] or how she complains about being only asked to talk about women issues[3] but when she got a spot in the lightning talk section she canceled it blaming the last day's "drama"[4]. [1] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/really/ [2] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/a-memorable-europython-for-th... [3] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/my-un-talk-at-djangocon/ [4]…

I don't know Lynn Root, but I don't see anything here for any mature man to be upset about. If Lynn Root complains or does or doesn't give a lightning talk (on the basis of her feeling bad that day, or not having prepared or whatever) that might be some kind of faux pas but honestly, who gives a shit. People cancel lightning talks. It harms nobody. It certainly doesn't make everyone involved with PyLadies (e.g. Hynek…

>Please explain why it is not offensive for this guy to call upon PyLadies for an orgasm...

I'll do better. I'll explain why being offended that someone mentioned the name of your organization in a context you don't approve of doesn't give you the right to publicly shame that person and get the conference organizers involved even if it was well outside their jurisdiction (he tweeted from a restaurant, after the conference).

We're adults. It's as simple as that. If you get offended by "orgasm" being too close to "ladies" in some string you don't run to the teacher. And you don't spend your next days telling people how much it affected you just reading that string. Or how much you cried. Or indulge in discussions on your blog's comment section about how the environment is "rapey" just to delete all the comments when you don't feel like talking any more.

No. We're adults and we should act like adults. Being offended is no excuse for bullying. No excuse for self-victimization. No excuse for abuse.

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#129

Post by taligent » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:37 PM UTC

pifflesnort wrote: post #68

mnicole wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just saw a person screw up, should I base my decision to fund an entire gender's disadvantage on a single person's irrationality?"

I don't see how one can reasonably equate funding of a one specific organization with the concerns of "an entire gender", without knowing more about what that organization does with those funds.

What exactly are you implying ?

Re: $10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013

#130

Post by lmickh » Mon, Mar 25, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #116

lmickh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not it hurts men has nothing to do with discrimination. If the group does not allow men to join or benefit from it's opportunities, it is discrimination. The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women. Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more…

Thought experiment: what about Saudi women who want to learn Python? Starting a Python group for women only would be a legal necessity to serve those women in Saudi Arabia. It would not be discrimination at all. Now suppose we are in London, and there are women who want to learn Python but due to religion or upbringing would not be comfortable in mixed company. Neither of these cases is "discrimination" against anyon…

Both of those cases would be discrimination. Please go find a dictionary.

The real question is whether those forms of discrimination are acceptable. I would argue yes for both of those cases. I believe people should be able to choose their environments so that they are comfortable in them.