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Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

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Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#121

Post by oijaf888 »

tptacek wrote: post #82
michaelochurch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out Long-term job security no longer exists. When you take a job, you are always at risk that it ends. For sure, this risk is real. He might get fired for hiding that detail. On the other hand, that likely means he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Which is worse: getting a job for a couple years,…

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

In some high profile cases, people haven't even lost their jobs (e.g. http://readwrite.com/2012/05/03/10-executives-who-lied-on-th...) and the damage was limited to their reputation and bonuses. I'm surprised there weren't more shareholder lawsuits or similar in the case of CEOs. Obviously if your employer is a government lying can result in jail time but other than that it seems the worst that happens is you get fired or lose your bonus. What else have you seen?

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#122

Post by Armslong »

The purpose of putting someone in jail is REHABILITATION. That's right, all caps. The moment someone is released from jail, the legal system sees that person as having a high probability of being rehabilitated (true, not always the case, but that's the fault of the US legal system), otherwise he/she would have not been released. Unfortunately nowadays a big percentage of the population in the US is mentally challenged blood-lusting self-righteous fanatics. So you self-righteous "rockstar" developers that have been posting bullcrap in this thread, you can go fork yourselves. As for the OP, you will have no trouble finding a job. Don't make it public unless explicitly asked, and say no more than necessary. Good luck!!

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#123

Post by 0x00_ »

alt2319 wrote: post #107
felonyquestions wrote: post #40

Hi, I've had a felony for over 8 years now, and have been working as a developer almost the entire time. I've only been asked to disclose that information once, and I did. While the company had questions, they didn't seem to care very much (note: I don't recommend telling anyone. If you're a great employee and a mistake from your youth discounts you from a job, it's a lose-lose. But I did tell, so... ). College? They…

I can "ditto" most of that. I've had a federal felony conviction for computer fraud (against an ex-employer) for over 10 years now and have been employed for most of that time. I was terminated as soon as my case hit the news media, but I was able to find contract work with friends before my sentencing. I was able to pay my restitution in full, which really sucked financially, but was a great feeling and something I'…

:) These are the types of posts I was hoping for when I created this thread. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this -both of you. It's just been really shitty to think about lately as far as my future is concerned. I am at a point where I'm beginning to question whether or not the choices I am making now are worth the investment of time (or not) before it's too late to change course. your experiences give me a modicum of hope which serves to reinforce my initial belief that everything I have been doing isn't a complete waste of time.

There's a paucity of information about these circumstances (compu fraud + compu pro) available online and most of the information available is presented from accounts of felons who are not in the same boat as I am.

Really my favorite posts here. Thanks again.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#124

Post by ra »

osteele wrote: post #30
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out, and then they aren't referenceable. If I were hiring for a security-related job, I'd consider the poster if he not only disclosed the conviction, but also contextualized it on his cover letter the way that he did in the pastebin, and if he provided some character witnesses (teachers, employers).

Yes absolutely. I know at least one highly regarded info sec consulting firm has a "reformed computer-hacker" (their words) on staff who will penetration test your systems for a handsome fee. ($30k per system last time I checked).

If this is your passion then I would encourage you to apply. Definitely use a cover letter along the lines of the pastebin.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#125

Post by OGC »

felonyquestions wrote: post #103
ebbv wrote: post #57

After almost 20 years in the industry my considered advice is pursue another career. That might not be the answer you want to hear but after thinking about it a bit that's my honest advice. Here's the reasons: - Of all the employers I've had not one of them would have hired you. - If somehow you "snuck in" and your past came to light, you would have been fired anywhere I've worked. - Unless I knew you really well per…

I have to respectfully disagree. At least the OP has a foot in the door in this field. Moving on to something else would mean starting at the bottom, yet having the same obstacles to overcome. Some jobs are simply closed off. No way around it. Why hire a felon when you can hire any other equally (based off paper and salary requirements) qualified candidate? Government restrictions may preclude him as well. If you are…

To add a "soft" argument to this, OP obviously has talent/knowledge (while not enough to not get caught) in his chosen career field, instead of doing something completely different where everyone else has a headstart.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#126

Post by RougeFemme »

ebbv wrote: post #57

After almost 20 years in the industry my considered advice is pursue another career. That might not be the answer you want to hear but after thinking about it a bit that's my honest advice. Here's the reasons: - Of all the employers I've had not one of them would have hired you. - If somehow you "snuck in" and your past came to light, you would have been fired anywhere I've worked. - Unless I knew you really well per…

None of the companies I've worked at would have hired him, either. BUT. . .all of the companies I've worked at have been large and/or had government contracts. I find it hard to believe that he couldn't get a job at mid-sized company, or a start-up, especially if ends up with a skillset that's hard to find and not just a standard CS skillset. . .however that's defined. And based on his experience, it sounds like he would/could definitely end up with a relatively hard-to-find skillset.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#127

Post by vellum »

auctiontheory wrote: post #4

Now, more than ever, you don't need to work for someone else (as an employee). If you have the skills, you can do very well as a freelancer/consultant. The pay can be good, the work can be interesting, and they won't run a background check on you.

Try going to some meetups in a big city. There's a lot of work out there and if you mention you're looking for a gig, and you seem knowledgeable, people will probably refer work to you.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#128

Post by jeltz »

avar wrote: post #5

Well, you don't have to lie on your resume or on your interview but have you considered just not mentioning it? Unless you're applying for certain types of jobs they're not going to do a background check on you, and you're unlikely to be under any obligation to disclose that you were convicted of computer fraud if you're applying for a computer related job. Also, think about taking jobs in countries that aren't the U…

I agree with simply just not mentioning it. I know background checks are more common in the US than in Sweden, but I doubt most small companies care enough to do them. So just apply for small companies and you should be fine.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#129

Post by OGC »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #19

Robert Morris had a similar background (Computer Fraud) and he still got to be YC co-founder. So I just say that you go on and be happy and successful.

> founder

is the key word here

> So I just say that you go on and be happy and successful.

that is worthless advice

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#130

Post by 0x00_ »

mschuster91 wrote: post #120

Start your own freelance business and get a bit of reputation by doing low-level work like web design for local pizzerias, restaurants etc. - no one gives a about convictions when hiring a web designer. It's how I managed to stay afloat (although, I am in Germany).

I don't really enjoy taking the time to make things look pretty. I'm not very good at that part of the design process and it takes too long for me (imho) to produce some aesthetic that will never really be functional outside the scope of organization.

I have done it when I've needed money though. Just aggravates me.

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