Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, I it does.
Okay, thanks
Also, my comment didn't make much sense, I must have missed a word or something.
Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
121–130 of 130 posts
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, Microsoft did contractually prohibit OEMs from pre-installing other browsers and making them the default instead.
Never heard of that. Source?
Mainly the US anti-trust case " rel="nofollow">http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm>. Example:
> At the same time, Compaq removed the Internet Explorer icon from the desktop of its Presarios and replaced it with a single icon [for Navigator]
>When Microsoft learned of Compaq's plans for the Presario, it informed Compaq that it considered the removal of the MSN and Internet Explorer icons to be a violation of the OPK process by which Compaq had previously agreed to abide. [...] Finally, after months of unsuccessful importunity, Microsoft sent Compaq a letter on May 31, 1996, stating its intention to terminate Compaq's license for Windows 95 if Compaq did not restore the MSN and Internet Explorer icons to their original positions. Compaq's executives opined that their firm could not continue in business for long without a license for Windows, so in June Compaq restored the MSN and IE icons to the Presario desktop.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
>committing the crime If a someone in a corporation is actually committing a crime , then, yes they can go to jail. If they have committed some kind of civil offense or if it's a criminal offense with no jail term attached then they don't go to jail. There's nothing special about corporations that prevent the people in charge from serving jail time.
In many cases, it's much easier to prove that a corporation did something illegal than it is to research who exactly in the corporation was responsible (except for the CEO, of course, but to hold the CEO criminally liable for everything a company does would be too open to abuses).
A primary (if often unstated) function of corporations is to diffuse individual responsibility and accountability.
Decisions -- where they are rational -- become a cost/benefit analysis. If you really want to deter the behavior, the costs have to outweigh the benefits. (Perhaps significantly enough to outweigh various arguments about what the true costs and benefits might be.)
And... this still says nothing about the damage that may have been caused to victims, and compensation for same. (For example, take someone's health away in certain fashions, and no amount of money can replace it.)
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#124Whilst it is Microsoft with bags of money and all that, I don't really see how such a huge fine (even for M$) is warranted. Yes, they stopped offering the browser choice, but at what point did someone from EU-HQ contact MS-HQ and tell them they'll be fined if they don't put it back in? Surely it would only take a few weeks at the most to actually re-instate the "feature" once they were threatened with a huge fine. It…
Yes, I stopped obeying the speed limit, but at what point did someone contact me and tell me I'll be fined if I don't stop obeying the speed limit? Surely it would only take a few weeks at the most to actually make me obey the speed limit once I were threatened with a huge fine.
Do you think that makes sense?
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#125Microsoft is stupid for making this mistake but the fine is complete BS in the first place. I think it would make more since to fine them over search engine options since that's where the money is actually made. If someone can explain how money is made off the browser alone then please enlighten me.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since when couldn't you just open IE and download your browser of choice? The browser ballot is BS imposed by bureaucrats.
Since human nature meant a substantial percentage of users are uninformed about what is available to them, and this is part of what made Microsoft monopoly abuse possible.
Hold on...
So when a consumer is not aware of XXX, it's Microsoft's fault?
*Substitute XXX for anything you want - alternative browsers, quantum mechanics, his own mortality, etc.
Personally, I think it's the consumer who should accept that responsibility.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's an issue those people would need to take up with Microsoft if Microsoft decides to risk their business over this. If they don't pay, they will have assets frozen, just as any other company or individual that refuse to pay their fines. Simple as that.
I know they will back down, but it makes me wonder; what if they didn't? Could a business, a corporation, go to war against another entity. Countries go to war all the time and while it may be "illegal", it's only the loser that has to suffer the consequences. What if Microsoft just decided screw it, and flipped a magic switch somewhere and shut down the entire EU infrastructure. No OS, no web servers, no SQL, no sha…
Businesses do go to war regularly against nations. Its pretty much how the mineral, precious stone and oil industries work.
Afghanistan looks like a useless chunk of dirt until you dig some holes.
If Microsoft did it, I'd probably laugh a bit at the irony simply because its how the EU operate.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
It still prevented other companies to have similar, competing agreements with house builders, and inflicted extra costs on them. As such, it's clearly an abuse of a monopolistic position in one market to influence another. In any case, this is not open to debate -- both the American and European justice systems found MS guilty, so that's how it is.
Right, because the American and European justice systems have never gotten it wrong, before.
No. The issue isn't that the end use couldn't install a browser, the issue was that Microsoft forbade OEMs with the threat of removing their distribution license from pre-installing other browsers, thus preventing competition at point of sale. This is anti-trust. It's not a 'stupid' law, it extremely sound. Microsoft, in all reality, should have been broken up as a result, but because the judge mouthed-off (and some heavy lobbying), they were treated more leaniently.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, it's the "Don't upset corporations or they will punish us with infinite price hikes" mantra. If they raise the price by €1 and for the sake of argument we assume a net profit of 50%, they would have to sell 1.1 billion packages to recoup the fine (I don't think Microsoft has sold that many software products in their lifetime, but it's a fun little thought experiment). 1.1 billion Windows 8 licences at €280 a piec…
€1 was just figure of speech. (Still, Governments pay for a ton of Microsoft products; Ms office, Windows, Exchange mailboxes, Sharepoint licenses, SQL server licenses etc. etc. How much money do you think Ms makes from EU governments in one year? in 5 years?) High software prices indeed harm tax payers. There is no win-win.
> High software prices indeed harm tax payers. There is no win-win.
High software prices generally hurt businesses more than individual taxpayers. The 1EUR fine would be a catastrophe for Microsoft's PR, however.
That kind of move would also push a non-trivial population to alternatives (however weak) like Google Docs.
Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it had the political motivation to uphold the European laws regarding abuses of a monopoly. Evil ...
Got to protect those people who can't figure out how to open IE and download the browser that they really want.
As has been said N times elsewhere, this is about the fact that MS stopped OEMs from bundling other browsers, even though they were allowed to bundle other software.