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That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

wheels.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#121

Post by kdsudac »

jimmyyoung wrote: post #87
kdsudac wrote: post #57

I get why Musk feels like he needs to defend his company but I think he may be doing more harm than good on the PR front. Do you think the average Tesla customer is going to want to wade through a bunch of plots of battery charge vs distance, etc? I think the takeaway for the average Tesla customer might be along the lines of "hmm, this seems really complicated.... am I going to have to keep the heat down while I dri…

Musks blog post is meant to be technical. It's not directly towards the average Tesla customer. The average customer is probably not going to be following this. Thousands of newspaper are going to write an article everything that happens. They will make it more reader-friendly. Repeat: It is not Musks' intent for customer to read his blog.

"Thousands of newspaper are going to write an article everything that happens."

Thousands of newspapers writing about this is exactly what Musk shouldn't want! Thanks for making my argument for me. :)

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#122

Post by calhoun137 »

The key issue here is, why did this reporter attempt a drive that was twice as long as the range which he himself admits was displayed by the car?

His defense is laughable: because someone on the phone the night before told me it would take an hour of charging.

Obviously, no one driving their own car would act this way, because then they would run a big risk of getting stuck on the road.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#123

Post by smsm42 »

stcredzero wrote: post #75
waterlesscloud wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. They've allowed Broder to just ride this out by muddying the waters. He walks away from this only slightly tainted now. At the very least, his notes and the resulting article are not accurate. He confirms this himself. This isn't surprising, and not necessarily malicious. But it's extremely common, as anyone who has ever dealt with a journalist knows. As a group, journalists simply get a great number of thing…

> As a group, journalists simply get a great number of things wrong and cannot be relied on for detail oriented work. Something is very wrong here. If the way you conduct business has nearly equal probability of pissing off innocent people unjustly as it has of making wrongdoers hot under the collar, isn't it time to revisit how you do things?

Newspapers are financed by ads and subscriptions. Both categories drive up ad impressions, links, referrals, newspaper profile, etc. and even if somebody would drop out of subscription based on that the chance is very low. So as long as journalists can keep on this side of a complete fabrication (that could drive subscribers away in serious numbers and make advertisers think twice) they're fine with sloppy work. A good controversy only helps the bottom line, and they can always say "we might have been wrong in small details but we illuminated serious concerns of public importance".

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#125

Post by shock-value »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #111
tedunangst wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's probably thinking that other Tesla drivers will do what the company tells them to do, so he does it to see what happens. Do you think the author is going to be the dumbest person to ever drive a Tesla?

Yes, because his actions are most consistent with someone seeking the lowest quality advice available to them. Despite having multiple sources of information for both the estimated range, as well as the nearest charging stations, he happened to not only choose the least reasonable, but the one with the worst outcome.

If both contradictory pieces of advice came from Tesla than surely the blame at least in this instance falls on their shoulders.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#126

Post by ANH »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #111
tedunangst wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's probably thinking that other Tesla drivers will do what the company tells them to do, so he does it to see what happens. Do you think the author is going to be the dumbest person to ever drive a Tesla?

Yes, because his actions are most consistent with someone seeking the lowest quality advice available to them. Despite having multiple sources of information for both the estimated range, as well as the nearest charging stations, he happened to not only choose the least reasonable, but the one with the worst outcome.

Precisely. How many Model S owners are going to call Tesla for regular recharging advice vs. taking 20 seconds to pull up a smart phone app that shows them nearby charging stations?

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#127

Post by stcredzero »

DoubleCluster wrote: post #117
stcredzero wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you aren't so hot either. So, grade school geometry refresher. When you increase the diameter of a circle, what happens to its circumference? Thanks for playing: "Do I think I am clever but just accidentally revealed I'm the level of dolt that needs basic geometry spelled out and assumes everyone else is as clueless as me?"

I do like the game :) The overall diameter of the wheel is determined by the diameter of the rim + 2 times the thickness of the tire(!). Cars with larger rims usually have far thinner tires on them so the overall diameter stays almost the same. Whatever the case, the speedometer will need to be checked and adjusted. Human error in this case can swing either way.

> I do like the game :)

D'oh! You win. (Not in the game mentioned above, either. I'm willing to be shown as a bit of a tires noob, so long as you're not painting me as a rube who forgot grade school geometry. EDIT: Never bought aftermarket rims in my life!)

In any case, this is enough to explain a 7 or 8% difference in the apparent direction the logs show?

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#128

Post by vacri »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #80
majormajor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mr. Straubel said Tesla did not store data on exact locations where their cars were driven because of privacy concerns, although Tesla seemed to know that I had driven six-tenths of a mile “in a tiny 100-space parking lot.” While Mr. Musk has accused me of doing this to drain the battery, I was in fact driving around the Milford service plaza on Interstate 95, in the dark, trying to find the unlighted and poorly mar…

You could probably go either way on that strategy. If you had this capability, and you suspected your adversary may be malicious, it is probably better to keep quiet and then destroy their credibility afterwards. If they are malicious, and know that they are being monitored, they might be more inclined to keep you blind to them. If Tesla knows that the monitoring can be disabled (it obviously can - how easily is the…

'turning it only on for X' is the same philosophy as having a back door in your software. "Oh, don't worry, only we will use it, and only for legitimate reasons. Trust us!"

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#129

Post by k_kelly »

nikcub wrote: post #42

The biggest mistake Elon made in his response was to dump all that data and to attempt to tear apart each part of the review. This means that the rebuttals now involve taking pieces of that and disproving them in the aim of disproving Tesla's entire argument. Tesla should have posted nothing more than a single line statement saying that Broder left the last charging station for a 65 mile trip with 32 miles on his ran…

There's an old saying that you shouldn't argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

It's still broadly true. Regardless of the dwindling influence of newspapers, arguing with the NYT doesn't sell cars but it does generate clicks for the paper.

Tesla can best refute the claims in the article by building great cars. A car review is not a story with legs, a fight between a genius billionaire and the worlds most respected newspaper has juice, and only compounds interest in a highly negative article for Tesla.

Re: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesn’t

#130

Post by evo_9 »

Unfortunately I think Musk has over-reacted and truly done more damage to Telsa/the electric car 'movement' in general the more this has gone on. It's actually really upsetting to see something like this spiral so ridiculously out of control because it's a fantastic car, and Musk is admirable person. But before you make inflammatory claims one would hope a serious investigation would occur. Unfortunately it appears that Musk took over the company 'megaphone' and got emotional, perhaps driven by ego? I don't get it, honestly esp. after the poorly handled Top Gear incident, they apparently learned nothing.

At first I was 100% behind Musk, esp. when I heard they had data to back up their claims; but now, honestly I don't know what he was thinking, or what Telsa as a company was thinking letting emotions take control of the situation.

In the future I think Telsa would be well served by imposing a 72 hour minimum media silence while they do their investigation into the matter, and for F-sake keep Musk off Twitter/everything.

I'm still huge fan of Musk, I hope this can be turned into a positive for Telsa somehow.

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