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Web Development: A Crazy World

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Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#121

Post by metaphorm »

FilterJoe wrote: post #106
metaphorm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Django is pretty mainstream. Its not as popular as Rails but its hardly a maverick. I think the reason why Python never went all in on a single web framework is just because the Python community itself is much larger and more diverse than the Ruby community. Consequently there were alot more opinions and alot more people willing to develop those opinions into separate projects. Maybe you're right that there are advan…

With Django in specific you can swap out a component. For example, if (like many people) you don't like the HTML template syntax, just swap it out for Jinja2 or Mako. In Django it is also usually easy to customize something minor by use of overrides (OOP).

this is very true for some of django's components. the template engine is probably the most opinionated part of django and is also one of the easiest parts to swap out. other parts of django are not so easily disposed of. for example, the ORM is very tightly integrated. its possible to swap it out for SQLAlchemy or something but this is really a huge headache and not worth doing.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#123

Post by SonicSoul »

I don't agree with this rant. Just becuase 50 libraries exist doesn't mean you have to be an expert in all of them or even use all of them.

I think it's great that so many frameworks are sprouting up, and once you've been around long enough, it shouldn't take more than a weekend to try one, see the benefits, and use it or learn from it and move on.

Since when is having more choice bad?

I've been out of web development for a number of years, and it is delightful to have all these options now. I am loving working with knockout.js and looking forward to trying ember next.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#124

Post by metaphorm »

analyst74 wrote: post #103
artursapek wrote: post #75

1. Go to Home Depot. 2. Pick the tools you like. Get a good hammer, saw, adjustable square. 3. Leave Home Depot and go get good with them. 4. If something breaks or doesn't perform a task you need, go back to Home Depot to supplement your toolbox.

alternative step 4: If something breaks, hammer it until it looks like a nail.

only for PHP developers

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#125

Post by metaphorm »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #114
redeemedfadi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will be funny is when we move everything back to server-side once we don't have network latency/bandwidth issues.

Really? transmitting just the data and letting the client handle the display and interaction seems a much more natural split. It alos makes my server software conceptually simpler - which is always nice

I agree. Separation of concerns is a very good design pattern. MVC server frameworks (like Rails and Django) have already separated out the concern of displaying data to the user with their template systems. its a very reasonable next step to just migrate the entire template system off the server and let the client do it.

This has gigantic performance increases for servers under heavy load, and it puts the display logic in a domain that is more naturally suited to dealing with it (JavaScript and the DOM instead of treating HTML as just a string).

The pattern also promotes the use of RESTful APIs for data access from the server, which has the wonderful bonus of allowing you to make your data publicly accessible for free if you want to.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#126

Post by guiomie »

barredo wrote: post #45
rpeden wrote: post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

"Let's argue about whether Haskell or Clojure is better while somebody else ships products using PHP and duct tape." @agentdero https://twitter.com/agentdero/status/174965036928868352

Made my day. I will quote this tweet as often as I can to coworkers.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#127

Post by EnderMB »

danso wrote: post #53

I'm far from an expert coder compared to most on here...but...what's the big deal? Once you've grokked server-side code and framework, is it really that hard to move from Rails to Sinatra or even to Django? Once you know databases, how hard is it to switch from SQLite to Postgres or to even Mongo? Same goes with Javascript frameworks. Now, I'm referring to the scope of what a web-developer needs to know to interface…

It depends on your definition of "know".

I'm a .NET developer by day, and I've met numerous Java developers that have crawled into a .NET role, either as a contractor/freelancer or into a entry/mid-level role at a company, claiming that because they are fantastic Java developers they can pick up C# in no time at all.

Yes, if you have been programming for a number of years then the syntax will come quickly, and you'll find yourself able to use the language. Top that off with an existing code-base and it's fairly easy to get started and to write some usable code. However, in my experience, the kind of ego's we see on sites like Reddit and HN either churn out:

1) Decent code, but only after comparing their own code to what is already out there out of fear of writing something that people will laugh at, regardless of if it works or not.

2) Code that looks like a Java developer wrote it, either rewriting methods that are already a fundamental part of the .NET framework, not using LINQ/Lambdas or anything from C#2-4 and failing to use any of the built-in tools within Visual Studio to check code.

The better programmers fully immerse themselves in the differences between the languages and how they are used. They have chosen to use this new language/framework for a reason, and they enter that world knowing why they did so and what they need to know to become productive for that given task.

As I'm sure everyone on here understands, there is a huge difference between being able to write some code in a given language and working on a given project in that language with others.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#128

Post by Swizec »

31reasons wrote: post #120
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am amazed a rant can go English -> Mandarin -> English via half the world's tech forums, and still be recognised by its original author. But what really blows my socks off is how a tech forum in Beijing follows rants from Slovenian blog to a Californian forum and back again. And it actually matters to the Chinese because they liked it as much as we did. Welcome to the new global culture, sharing the same memepool.

This is scary, we are loosing diversity at an incredible rate.

It stands to reason, therefore, that humans do not want this diversity.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#129

Post by marknutter »

timonv wrote: post #101
marknutter wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked nobody has pointed this out, but we "bother" with javascript because it runs in browsers, and browsers are ubiquitous. Why does everyone who has personal issues with Javascript or web development in general seem to forget that it has become popular because of the webs ubiquity and the promise of cross-platform development?

And that's exactly the problem. The promise has been there for _years_, it just never has been made up to. Sure, cross-platform development is cool, you can do that in Java. I can also do it in Ruby, Go, Rust, Clojure, Erlang or Haskell. And those solutions don't feel like a duct tape on a drainpipe. It's still the same as it was 10 years ago, we can't wrap our head around a solution that works for all browsers, henc…

I'm not sure I'm understanding. I develop web applications that run well on all major platforms and it's not nearly as hard to do as people make it out to be. And the difference between Javascript and Java, Ruby, Go, Rust, etc. is that it runs in an environment that literally everybody already has installed when they buy a computer - the web browser. No mucking around with installing the JVM, or downloading an application to install and keep up to date, etc... you just point your browser to say, Facebook.com or news.ycombinator.com and boom, you are served a nice, cross-platform application that never needs updating. Thus, the popularity of javascript and web technologies.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#130

Post by padfoot »

31reasons wrote: post #120
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am amazed a rant can go English -> Mandarin -> English via half the world's tech forums, and still be recognised by its original author. But what really blows my socks off is how a tech forum in Beijing follows rants from Slovenian blog to a Californian forum and back again. And it actually matters to the Chinese because they liked it as much as we did. Welcome to the new global culture, sharing the same memepool.

This is scary, we are loosing diversity at an incredible rate.

And the ability to spell as well.
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