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I have a theory that software drives people insane

graybeard.ing

121–130 of 206 posts

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#121
A lot of it has to do with communications. The times I (as a programmer myself) have witnessed how companies we asked to write software tackled it was eye opening in a negative sense.

As a freelancer my process involves a lot of observation, asking questions and planning. Usually when I go into the details more questions emerge and whom to ask better than the people who do exactly this daily? Sure sometimes their process is a bad abstraction, they chose because they did not knew better and thus not worth putting into software. But before you decide that you gotta ask whether there are reasons why it was done that way. I see my task as a programmer to make peoples lives easier, by finding elegant abstractions for their problems, that are at the same time, reliable, adjustable, encourage correctness, avoid problems and so on.

Now most software companies I interacted with from the other side did none of the things. They rushed to gather the specs, asked some questions in the beginning and were out of the door to start way too fast, with some things they just assumed without confirming. Then crickets and then something half broken comes around that you need to beat into shape in an exhausting back and forth, where again you have to be the person with the questions.

If it is exhausting for a person with software development experience to be your customer, how bad will it be for people who have no such experience.

Now there are of course exceptions also in such companies, but in my experience that is mich rarer than it should be.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#122
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think that over-reliance on analytics has had a similar effect I lost track of how many times the directors would tell us, "Since the analytics say A, we should do B." then the research person says, "Sure Jim, great idea, lets get a few rounds of useability research and confirm it first." Then the always predictable thing happens: Users never align with your analytics. Seeing data and seeing someone struggling t…

> Users never align with your analytics. Any good theories for how this happens (i.e. why the data fails to capture the struggle)?

Interpreting data is hard.

Eg, if you have a bunch of airplanes returning from a war, you might be tempted to armor the areas where they were hit. But you want to armor planes where the holes arent because those are the critical areas.

If you can read literal bullet holes backwards, hundred dimensional preference vectors say something, but we generally have no clue.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#123
post #31

I was about to post this thought on the latest "We're moving from tech/architecture X to Y" post on the HN front page today, but now I feel it belongs here. I was recently chatting with a friend about how we used to do so much more with so few developers: 20 years ago, we developed mission critical, real time software (trading systems) in C++ with team of a couple of dozen developers. The core trading kernel team was…

Joel Spolsky's "Fire And Motion" blog post (2002) describes the challenge of tech churn well: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/

> Think of the history of data access strategies to come out of Microsoft. ODBC, RDO, DAO, ADO, OLEDB, now ADO.NET – All New! Are these technological imperatives? The result of an incompetent design group that needs to reinvent data access every goddamn year? (That’s probably it, actually.) But the end result is just cover fire. The competition has no choice but to spend all their time porting and keeping up, time that they can’t spend writing new features.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#124
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 2 larger projects I'm on, I'm both the developer and a user: on a regular basis I use the software myself. And not just for one-off tests. I really use it the way other users use it. This has provided rather deep and interesting insights in software development for these particular products and in general. Or in OP's lingo: not a lot of potential for insanity at all. Because any new idea immediately gets regarded…

Dogfooding is useful certainly but it can also be a trap, as someone who is technical and knows how the software works both sides you can fall into the trap of avoiding triggering the exact kind of issues a regular user can walk into. Your conceptual model of how things work is going to be different to that persons and it is a very hard trap not to fall into.

Indeed. Some of the worst software interfaces I've ever dealt with were fully "dogfooded" and that was the cause; the people writing the software did use it every day but (a) in a very idiosyncratic way and (b) in a specific, very constrained environment.

The devs did use the software, but used it in such a different way from everyone else that when the devs optimized for their own case, it made the software actively worse for everyone else.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#125
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 2 larger projects I'm on, I'm both the developer and a user: on a regular basis I use the software myself. And not just for one-off tests. I really use it the way other users use it. This has provided rather deep and interesting insights in software development for these particular products and in general. Or in OP's lingo: not a lot of potential for insanity at all. Because any new idea immediately gets regarded…

I find that if people don't dogfood their software the software just ends up being shit. As engineers we need to be a little grumpy. Frustrating with our software provide directions to improve it. If we're not grumpy, we don't know what to fix. But some of this also comes from top down. Engineers also need the freedom to fix things. They're the experts. Management Also shouldn't interpret that frustration in quality…

Heh it can stil suck even when dogfooding.

At my friend's org, they like it to suck bc that reminds them they are doing the very sophisticated work of dogfooding. No one told them they're allowed/supposed to feel good making/using the sw...

"We want to feel the same pain the customer feels" is shortened to "we want to feel pain." Instead of "neither we nor the customer feel pain."

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#126
I'm starting to believe computer work and screens make me lose touch with reality and dissociate. I remember starting an apprenticeship as a dev in 2015 and I saw a guy like me, but 2 years in, with deep eye bags and he just smiled, didnt say anything and he looked extremely exhausted. Well 11 years later and here we are, we are all tethered to this mess

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#127
> Moving the kitchen in software might look like a "simple fix."

Why, of course! We leave the kitchen deployment where it is, and just install a proxy kitchen facade on the other side of the house, which does everything via the original kitchen through remote procedure calls.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#129
OP has practically observed the effect of the Ego via software, but hasn't quite arrived at the ability to quantify it.

Read back through and apply every example given through that lens.

It is possible that we're in an industry that inordinately expresses this part of human nature, but I'm pretty sure it shows up everywhere though different anecdota. Apply a reductionist Zen Buddhist view to your professional creativity and all of this goes away.

Bob wants to refactor a subsystem because it will make him a hero, and if he positions it correctly to management, the technical merit and actual realized level of success will be irrelevant. Alice chooses to surface some obvious concerns and then sit back and watch the show. Jane chooses to throw her hands up in stand-up and try to emotionally convince everyone the sky will fall. Be like Alice and preserve your sanity.

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