The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#121

Post by wakawaka28 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 7:06 AM UTC

GlibMonkeyDeath wrote: post #88

wakawaka28 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't what it means to have a shortage. In many cases Americans are discouraged from applying for these jobs. They can overspecify the criteria or be overly skeptical about your resume, write the job listing poorly, or hide the job listing entirely. What a shortage really means from their perspective is that they can't find enough workers for the price they want to pay (as opposed to what they can afford). Howev…

"What a shortage really means from their perspective is that they can't find enough workers for the price they want to pay" Exactly - we are in agreement

We are mostly in agreement. I'm pretty sure we need to sympathize with employers in situations like this, at times, though. It doesn't help anyone to reduce every shortage to a supposed moral fault in the employers lol. At what point do we become sympathetic to them? When their business is crucial to society and can't function without the workers at the given price? Or is it when the market rate for a job is offensive to other kinds of workers at jobs of similar difficulty? I think the societal need is a plausible reason, but it leads to this slippery slope we started off complaining about. It boils down to: who's to say how expensive is too expensive, or that a business should fail because of a politically imposed scarcity of labor?

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#122

Post by tomhow » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 7:24 AM UTC

utokyoberkeley wrote: post #99

as12zh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very easy. Indians males are allowed to focus on education and take our jobs while white males have to consider that they'll be replaced by an H1B and study something different like law or medicine that is not so easily replacable. Can you explain why with this intellectual dominance Indians contribute very little to open source but go straight for the CTO positions where they do nothing? Where is the Indian…

[flagged]

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Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#123

Post by wakawaka28 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 8:01 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #55

phainopepla2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support [...] Working in non-FAANG corporate America, these types of roles are the only thing thing I've ever seen H1B hires used for. They've run the gamut from incompetent to quite good, but none have ever been the "best and brightest". It saddens me that the left no longer seems to care about protecting American workers.

You know, they used to. Bernie spoke against relocating refugees (from Serbia or something) back in the day due to the fact he had unemployed local Vermonters. They used to care. They had cared less since the second Reagan admin, but completely abandoned any pretense after GW's first term win. What I've seen is a local workforce (typically, then a mix of 1st gen Americans) being asked to train their replacements. Som…

You're right, they used to care or at least said the right things. Then I guess they realized that they could get more voters by simply importing them lol...

>What I've seen is a local workforce (typically, then a mix of 1st gen Americans) being asked to train their replacements. Some replacements on Visas and some remote. But what gall to ask you to train your [cheaper] replacements.

This destroys their entire argument about the necessity of the imports, even if it is relatively rare. (Note that I don't think it's rare to be replaced by foreigners. I think it's rare to be forced or incentivized to train them, especially with knowledge that you will actually be replaced.)

Recently I heard something crazy like 9 of 10 new jobs since the pandemic is held by foreign-born people, even as many US-born are unemployed. 20% of US-born men is unemployed. This is not a primary source but it should get you started if you're interested: https://www.numbersusa.org/blog/nine-out-of-ten-new-jobs-hav...

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#124

Post by wakawaka28 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 8:22 AM UTC

breadwinner wrote: post #89

wakawaka28 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They can't prove themselves abroad. Consider the example of "Attention is all you need" paper. That paper came into existence thanks to talented people from around the world coming together in one place and then collaborating. It would not have happened if the contributors stayed in their own countries. I think this is a stretch, especially now that we have the internet. I also wouldn't be opposed to non-immigrant r…

> I think this is a stretch, especially now that we have the internet. We disagree on your first paragraph, agree on the rest.

I'm surprised you can't find something to agree with in the first paragraph. I feel compelled to restate and clarify points I glossed over, to see which one you disagree with:

1. Foreign researchers can communicate with colleagues fairly well over the internet (in real time, even). Physical presence is not required to do academic research, at least in mathematics or CS.

2. Degree mills, fake credentials, paper mills, etc. exist to get names on stuff for a fee. This is used to game the immigration system.

3. Many US degree programs are used as a vector for immigration more than education, and people who immigrate this way usually try to meet the minimum requirements to stay in the US and do little beyond that.

4. Even when it comes to research, most research just isn't that good and doesn't contribute that much to society.

5. Getting jobs in academia is difficult.

6. Immigration lowers wages due to the basic laws of economics.

7. Given the fact that we have mediocre researchers in abundance, such that they can't find work in academia, there is negligible societal benefit to importing mediocre foreign researchers en masse. Additionally, this is devastating to the local labor market.

8. All other things equal (to the extent it is reasonable to determine), a country should try to ensure that native citizens get priority in hiring, rather than importing replacements.

If you disagree with #8, perhaps you should consider who is going to be willing to spill their blood and give up their treasure to defend a country that undermines them at every turn.

Re: The American Worker vs. the Most Qualified

#125

Post by xtiansimon » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 12:04 PM UTC

phainopepla2 wrote: post #41

ecshafer wrote: post #18

I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support, CRM managemetn, Marketing, Project Managers, and all sorts of basic office work. The idea its used for the best and brightest is absurd. When you also count the massive fraud in H1B, people looking for kickbacks, racial preferences, lying on resumes (I once interviewed an H1B with 4 pages on their resume, couldn't answer a single question from what I…

> I have seen H1Bs used for basic Java development, Desktop Support [...] Working in non-FAANG corporate America, these types of roles are the only thing thing I've ever seen H1B hires used for. They've run the gamut from incompetent to quite good, but none have ever been the "best and brightest". It saddens me that the left no longer seems to care about protecting American workers.

> “… the left no longer seems to care about protecting American workers.”

???

I can’t imagine why this is a left/right issue. Progressive/conservative issue.

It’s an economic issue. It was said in the article, “global enterprises”. It’s MBAs, and not “Medicare for all radicals”.