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Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

texastribune.org

121–130 of 324 posts

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#121
post #63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot. So don't go around stealing catalytic converters. Same deal with states with "stand your ground laws". It's astonishingly easy to not get shot: don't invade someone's home. And on the "replacing" part- on whose dime? What if someone's only means of transportation is affected, and they lose wages or outright lose their job? Are you going to pay for it? Of course…

> Same deal with states with "stand your ground laws". It's astonishingly easy to not get shot: don't invade someone's home. Florida road rage incident leaves 2 girls shot after fathers' stand-your-ground gunfight https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/florida-road-rage-incident-...

It's good to be able to stand your ground if that becomes necessary, I think. When I took concealed carry classes, they taught me to aim towards the center of mass to maximize my chances of a hit that would disable the attacker and to keep shooting until they stop being a threat.

But I also think that it is often more-useful and much, much safer to know how to de-escalate when that's possible. When I took martial arts classes, they taught me that the first step towards winning a fight was to avoid fighting to begin with, and always calm things down one notch at a time. If, and only if, that becomes impossible, then: Kick the snot out of them until they stop being a threat.

And running away can be useful: An attacker's ability to do harm decreases with distance. When I took army basic training, we trained a lot on running. They taught me that being able to run reasonably-quickly for reasonably-long distances was a skill that most people lack. Just keep running and the attacker will probably get tired and give up long before you do, which generally resolves the threat. If the threat persists after running away, then: Use the element of surprise and just turn around and stab them until they stop being a threat.

---

This is not an exhaustive list of methods and it is possible for any of them to go wrong. It's also possible to do nothing at all as a response and still have a very bad time of things.

It's a complex world. We've got billions of other people with different backgrounds, different problems, and different ideas of how they're going to get a little further ahead today than they were yesterday.

If we all had all of the answers, then we wouldn't have the kinds of desperation that leads to these problems to begin with.

But we don't all have all of the answers.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All lives are not equal. The value of the life of a thief whose only impact on the society is negative, cannot be compared to e.g. a doctor.

So why would someone risk his live and become a thief instead of a doctor?

Some combination of desperation and sociopathy.

I might suppose that it's usually more the former than the latter, but there's degrees to each characteristic.

They perceive that they need things, and they don't necessarily care who they harm to get the things that satisfy this need.

(When we dress it up all nice and back it with corporate layers and an army of lawyers, sometimes we get CEOs.)

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#124
post #88
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot. So don't go around stealing catalytic converters. Same deal with states with "stand your ground laws". It's astonishingly easy to not get shot: don't invade someone's home. And on the "replacing" part- on whose dime? What if someone's only means of transportation is affected, and they lose wages or outright lose their job? Are you going to pay for it? Of course…

Yeah. There were times in my life I would have put my life on the line (and that of the thief) to defend my vehicle and the tools within it. Those fed myself and my family. I would have had no reasonable means to replace my tools, and barely reasonable means to replace the damage a catalytic converter theft would have caused me. Today it's trivially easy for me to say "property can be replaced, a life cannot" since I…

Or you could have a society with a welfare safety net or even viable forms of transportation other than a private car. It appears that places where that happen also tend to have much lower crime rates as an added benefit.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.

Nobody is forcing people to risk their lives to infringe on other people's rights. Whenever I see a news article about a criminal killed in the act, I never think "I wish they were alive.", I think "I wish they never went down that path in the first place that lead to that scenario."

> Nobody is forcing people to risk their lives to infringe on other people's rights.

Except poverty, ignorance, hunger, addiction, untreated mental illness...

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#126
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and it’s against the spirit of the bill of rights.

Well, the debate about the Bill of Rights itself was that the Constitution does not explicitly authorize those activities the first place (which is why they were amendments) and that listing any of them would imply that things not explicitly listed were somewhat endorsed. But I do know the Founders had no clue about computers, networks, cameras or license plates so they certthad no opinions about Flock cameras when t…

If you remove the technology that they wouldn’t understand, the founders wouldn’t consider Flock to be some absurd concept: a sheriff asking a night watchman standing on the road into town “did you see George go by riding Samuel’s horse?”

It’s a reasonable question, it’s a public road, and it doesn’t violate George’s privacy in his person, home, papers, or belongings.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#127
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.

If I kill you over a $2K catalytic converter, my sanity is gone. I could never sleep at night without thinking about what I have done.' A life is worth a lot more than $2k for my sanity.

I was once beaten senseless by a group of 3 young men when I decided to take an early-morning walk to get some smokes from the store down the way, in a sleepy small city in Ohio.

There was nothing that I was doing that was wrong in any way. I was quietly minding my own business when they came up from behind me with other ideas and one of them hit me in the side of my face, from behind, with an intensity that I'd never really experienced before in all of my years.

I lost hours of my memory and years of my mental health. I gained years of occasional intense neck pain that consistently put my mind in very dark places, and thousands of dollars of medical bills.

They gained two unopened packs of Camels and the pocket knife that I apparently failed to effectively utilize. I still had my wallet and my phone.

The police did nothing of any productive impact. A report was taken, and it was taken poorly. When 3 guys were arrested a couple of weeks later for robbing someone with a baseball bat and I recognized their pictures, they didn't care. I walked the local law-enforcement ladder all the way up to the city prosecutor, and also through parallels in the sheriff's department.

Nothing was productively done on my behalf.

It made me feel so angry and powerless. A follow-up that I requested came along with the cop that took the first report, and resulted in such profound and obtuse stonewalling that I became tremendously and irreverently furious. I left the room, while demanding from the other side of a wall that he get the fuck out of my apartment.

This all conspired to make it clear that it was my cross to bear. Nobody of any influence was going to help me along the way.

(I'd probably have a very different story to tell if I'd shot the attackers all dead, but I don't have that story. I was not equipped to do that so there is no direct comparison here for me to make. It is definitely my hope that I never have any opportunities to make such a comparison.)

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#128
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.

Ah, but that’s not the choice. The choice is whether there exist probability p, life L, and material possession m such that the possession is worth more than p times L. The conclusion that there is no such triad seems clearly absurd since we allow people to build things for us the construction of which offers them a non-zero chance of death. It is reasonable to say that a precise frontier is not describable because o…

A great example of this triad is driving a car: many people choose to do so every day and a small but not insignificant fraction of them will die because of it.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#129

For a country that staged a revolution over a tea tax modern Americans sure seem to love having their rights trampled.

What right does a Flock camera violate?

Not American, but

1. I don't think Texas was around during the Tea Party, and

2. Property is also a right, so this is just about how much privacy you are willing to sacrifice for how much property.

Re: Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras

#130
post #76

So to fight abuse and overreach by your leaders, you can: - give up your car/vehicle propery - let an LLC take ownership - reside in the privacy protections of LLC and corporation I don't think any successful case has happened yet where flock et al have pierced the corporate veil to get address information, nor dug into insurance records to find who the LLC-license plates belong to.

The fact that corporations have more privacy rights than people is dystopian.
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