Instead of focusing on the mass shootings, focus instead on the thousands of children killed by guns in between the mass killings.
I don't think that you will find that this number is a statistical fluctuation.
Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
121–130 of 164 posts
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
But arson has been largely addressed in western countries by legislation. Building and fire codes are strong, positive examples that federal and/or state legislation saves lives (as I'm not a US citizen, I'm not sure where juridiction lies).
It's state and local. But I think you underestimate the distinction between a normal fire and one set to deliberately murder. To get back to the current topic, one reason the death toll at Virginia Tech was so high was the shooter chained shut from the inside all three exits of the building. No one could escape and that gave the shooter an extra 5 minutes before the police could breach a door. Then there are the case…
I'm still not sure where the arson/gun violence comparison is viable. Steps have been taken to try and curtail deaths caused by fire (deliberate or otherwise) which have clearly succeeded.
Are they foolproof? Not at all. But aside from more inspections to prevent code violations, what additional steps are there? Preventing doors from being locked? Providing better battering devices for police? Banning fire?
The way I see it, the pro-gun lobby and enthusiasts have so successfully barred the door to future attempts at legislation that most consider it a topic un-worthy of discussion.
And, again, I say all of this not even really believing that more gun legislation is the answer. These are the better options:
- Better, easier to access healthcare (including mental health resources -- this is something that most western countries should improve)
- Close the income discrepancy between the wealthy and poor which will open up advancement opportunities for lower income families and individuals
- Decriminalize certain drugs, or at least possession
- De-emphasize incarceration over re-habilitation in the prison system (for profit prisons? Jesus...)
Address the perceived necessity for weapons rather than the weapons themselves.
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't know if there are any fixes to the problem that wouldn't cause potentially worse problems Again, comparison to other developed countries proves there are.
Why? What country is close enough to the US in size, heterogeneity and number of guns so that you can make a fair comparison? Edit to answer to the comment below: think what you want. Don't try to convince me. I'm skeptical, you're not. Write to your legislators instead of here. Write your own blog posts.
Size is irrelevant, these are per-capita statistics.
If heterogeneity was a factor, surely homicide rates would be climbing in countries like Canada and Australia that have the highest immigration rates in the Developed world[1]. They are not.
Number of guns is precisely the factor at the heart of the issue.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migrat...
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's state and local. But I think you underestimate the distinction between a normal fire and one set to deliberately murder. To get back to the current topic, one reason the death toll at Virginia Tech was so high was the shooter chained shut from the inside all three exits of the building. No one could escape and that gave the shooter an extra 5 minutes before the police could breach a door. Then there are the case…
I'm still not sure where the arson/gun violence comparison is viable. Steps have been taken to try and curtail deaths caused by fire (deliberate or otherwise) which have clearly succeeded. Are they foolproof? Not at all. But aside from more inspections to prevent code violations, what additional steps are there? Preventing doors from being locked? Providing better battering devices for police? Banning fire? The way I…
Address the perceived necessity for weapons rather than the weapons themselves.
But how can you ever do that?
No matter how much the above prescriptions change the facts on the ground, there will still be criminals and mentally ill people who attack others. And you'll never change what's historically the biggest killer of all, the threat of governments, most especially including your own as the last century's history wrote in blood.
So I don't think you'll ever change my perception that I need weapons.
(I also "need" "weapons" to target shoot, but that gets a little complicated.)
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#125The scale of the problem isn't in itself an argument for doing or not doing something about. The emotional impact is most definitely an important factor, and not something that can simply be argued away with numbers. Most people don't live in fear of cancer or lightning strikes, unless they find themselves in the middle of an asbestos filled building or right underneath a lightning storm. The knowledge however that s…
People vote in politicians. We hope that politicians do the hard work of research and getting advice before making policy.
It'd be really nice if politicians could make use of science and good quality research to make their arguments and to craft policy.
It'd be really nice if politicians could say "We don't know what the answer is. We're running some 3 year trials, and at the end of those we'll have some data and information and we'll be in a better position to know what the best thing to do is".
But no politician is going to say that. No politician is ever going to say "I'm not sure, I'll have to look at the research and get advice".
Any politician who said anything other than "Mass shootings are devastating and something needs to be done" would be eviscerated by tv, newspapers, and blogs. There is no possibility of nuanced discussion.
> most people very rationally prefer not to go swimming with sharks.
But when people decide not to swim in a well run swimming pool because the media is constantly blaring entertainment shows about sharks with ominous music and shaky-cam then it's not so rational.
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#126Not once does the author dare to compare homicide rates to other developed countries. You're almost twice as likely to be killed by a gun because you live in the United States vs. the next developed country (Finland). You're 2.6 times as likely to be killed than the next country, Canada. Something is very wrong here. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...
I think you missed the point. Gun control might be a good idea, but not because it will reduce the likelihood of psychopathic spree killings. Psychopathic spree killings are such a low-probability, extreme event that there's almost nothing you can do, at a public policy level, to influence them. Your monkey brain may protest that this simply cannot be (as mine does), but our monkey brains are wrong . Instead we need…
"Psychopathic spree killings are such a low-probability, extreme event that there's almost nothing you can do, at a public policy level, to influence them. "
This is completely false. Being rare doesn't mean there aren't things that can make it even more rare. Many countries have taken steps that make these events far less likely.
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assure you gun control advocates have not forgotten about the second amendment since the opposition will not shut up about it. Also, all the rights listed in the first ten amendments are limited to the point at which you're infringing on someone else's rights. The threat of death or injury, such as it is, would seem to be a pretty clear reason to limit that right.
You sound like a parody of the left. "Your rights end where my feelings begin!" Is that really your stance?
That's not his stance, that's fundamental constitutional law. Quoting Paul Waldman from TAP:
"for some reason gun advocates think that the right to bear arms is the only constitutional right that is virtually without limit. You have the right to practice your religion, but not if your religion involves human sacrifice. You have the right to free speech, but you can still be prosecuted for incitement or conspiracy, and you can be sued for libel. Every right is subject to limitation when it begins to threaten others, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that even though there is an individual right to gun ownership, the government can put reasonable restrictions on that right."
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#128"I personally hate guns. I have never owned or even fired one. I wish they didn’t exist, but they do" - Everyone should try to put at least two dozen rounds down the range. It's a great experience, and it can help you focus, make your mind faster and clearer (IPSC is simply awesome - go to an event). I don't really care about the self defense aspect - even though it's enticing, having some of my stuff stolen is proba…
You think very highly of the good will of criminals, and I would guess you're not a women.
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#129We frequently see statistics quoted saying that the number of firearm homicides in the US is higher than that of other developed countries. We also see statistics quoted saying that the number of firearms is higher than that of other developed countries. I'd like to see statistics comparing the number of murders with other weapons. It is perfectly plausible that we have an elevated rate of gun ownership for historica…
Using this http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_cr... as my primary source, figures by specific instruments or methods (with about as many US murders unspecified as U.K. murders total, the unspecified not used), I get a 1.34 per 100,000 rate of non-firearms but otherwise specified murders in the US in 2004, compared to a 1.45 per 100,000 for all of the U.K.
For better or worse, we're a violent people.
Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
I visited Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and was shown a gun collection owned by a previous member of the army. I was shown a pistol collection, then rifles, then semi-automatics. Really a quite staggering amount of hardware. When I asked what license was required to own this type of equipment he replied none. Without making a judgement on whether or not civilians should be allowed to own this type of equipment in the…
Something gun control advocates seem to forget is that gun ownership is a Constitutional right for Americans. You cannot compare it to driving a car, or buying a television, or buying something from Amazon. If you're going to compare to something else for the purposes of limiting and regulating it, you need to compare to voting, assembling, practicing your faith or some other Constitutional right. When you are requir…
> gun ownership is a Constitutional right for Americans
To turn this round, this constitutional right is the reason that Americans are allowed to own weapons that are normally used in warzones at the age of 18 and without any safety measures. The world has changed since the constitution was written. If you were writing it today, would you still include the right to bear arms?